ASCO Annual Meeting: Nilotinib induces treatment-free remission in patients with chronic phase CML http://bit.ly/25ILdhq
Posted 06 June 2016 - 09:52 AM
ASCO Annual Meeting: Nilotinib induces treatment-free remission in patients with chronic phase CML http://bit.ly/25ILdhq
For the benefit of yourself and others please add your CML history into your Signature
02/2010 Gleevec 400mg
2011 Two weakly positives, PCRU, weakly positive
2012 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU
2013 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, weakly positive
2014 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU (12/07 began dose reduction w/each continuing PCRU)
2015 300, 250, 200, 150
2016 100, 50/100, 100, 10/17 TFR
2017 01/17 TFR, 04/18 TFR, 07/18 TFR 0.0012, 08/29 TFR 0.001, 10/17 TFR 0.000
2018 01/16 TFR 0.0004 ... next quarterly PCR 04/17
At the earliest opportunity, and whenever possible, lower your TKI dosage; TKIs are toxic drugs and the less we take longterm the better off we are going to be ... this is especially true for older adults.
In hindsight I should have started my dosage reduction two years earlier; it might have helped minimize some of the longterm cumulative toxic effects of TKIs that I am beset with.
longterm side-effects Peripheral Artery Disease - legs (it's a bitch); continuing shoulder problems, right elbow inflammation. GFR and creatinine vastly improved after stopping Gleevec.
Cumulative Gleevec dosage estimated at 830 grams
Taking Gleevec 400mg an hour after my largest meal of the day helped eliminate the nausea that Gleevec is notorious for.
Trey's CML Blog - Stopping - The Odds - Stop Studies - Discussion Forum Cessation Study
Big PhRMA - Medicare Status - Social Security Status - Deficit/Debt
Posted 06 June 2016 - 02:08 PM
It will be interesting to see how Trey responds to this. We are now getting significant data - through clinic trials that upwards of 50% of patients who achieve deep molecular responses (and that would include Trey) are able to successfully stop taking Nilotinib (and other TKI's also).
My question is what is different about these patients than the others who are not able to stop?
Also - as I believe CML initiates more or less spontaneously and expands in people whose immune systems can't check it - someone who had CML will probably always have the potential for new disease to occur even if the old CML has been extinguished. PCR testing will be needed for the rest of our lives, even if we're no longer taking the drug. I can think of worse things.
Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)
with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein
Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate
6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.
2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
March 2017 PCR: 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
June 2017 PCR: "undetected"
September 2017 PCR: "undetected"
Posted 06 June 2016 - 04:30 PM
My question is what is different about these patients than the others who are not able to stop?
That is one of the questions the researchers are asking. I've been in the LAST trial for a year now. Still PCRU. My oncologist is Dr. Larson who is quoted above. I think that in time the answer to this question will be found to be related to "cured" patients (treatment free remission forever) primarily coming from the subset of patients who had a fast and deep response to their tki's - the kind of response typically found with "the more potent" tki's (or more potent dosages).
My personal opinion is that knocking the beJesus out of the CML early - before it has a chance to "take hold" or "mutate" - is the best shot at long term treatment free remission. It might end up that patients and docs will have to choose between taking a "TFR" track or a "minimal side effect" track. I suppose the good news is we have choices and will probably have a wider range of choices in the future.
I think we are seeing a philosophy shift in the way the researchers and experts are looking at CML treatment, switching from 'let's control this disease for life' to 'let's cure this bad boy'. To me the following are very important takeaways:
"Discontinuing treatment may seem counterproductive to patients who experience good outcomes, but continuing treatment past tumor-free remission can lead to increased adverse events and high long-term costs for patients. Some patients with CML with deep molecular response to TKI can safely stop therapy."
"Many challenges remain in the therapy of patients with CML. We need to understand which patients can safely stop treatment. For those patients who do not achieve a deep molecular response, adding other therapies that would get them there. Finally, our goal should remain to cure patients with CML i.e. no evidence of CML and off TKI therapy."
Posted 06 June 2016 - 04:49 PM
10/01/2014 100% Diagnosis (WBC 278k, Blasts 6%, Spleen extended 20cm)
Cancer Sucks!
Posted 06 June 2016 - 05:05 PM
It doesn't seem to me that this latest report says anything essentially different than what we've been seeing: most people don't get to MR 4.5 and if they do, about half can maintain TFR. We knew this. Also, the hunch that fast and furious is better is an understandable human reaction, but the data really only suggest that you join the pool of people eligible to try stopping, sooner. It doesn't mean you are more likely to end up in the half that then go on to TFR of long-standing. I wish, but it still looks like only about 1 in 5 can hope to be in a TFR for a period of years - I don't think there are figures for anyone past a few years. So, yes, someone could "get" CML all over again. I once asked a nurse practitioner this question about 6 years ago - if the message came down from some genetic screw-up to bust up chromosomes 9 and 22, what's to keep that message from continuing to be sent, even if you kill every last leukemic cell in your body? She said that was a very good question.
Dx July 2009 on routine physical. WBC 94. Started Gleevec 400 mg Sept 2009. MMR at 2yrs. Side effects (malaise, depression/anxiety, fatigue, nausea, periorbital edema) never improved. Kidney issues developed because of Gleevec. Switched to Sprycel 70 mg in Aug 2011. Above side effects disappeared or improved. Have been MR3.5 - 4.5 ever since. Two untreated pleural effusions followed by one treated by stopping Sprycel Jan 2017. After 9 weeks, PCR showed loss of MMR; re-started Sprycel at 50 mg and in 3 months was back to <0.01% IS. Pleural effusion returned within a couple of months, same as before (moderate, left side only). Stopped Sprycel 50 mg for 12 weeks; pleural effusion resolved. At about a monthoff the drug, PCR was 0.03; at 11 weeks it was 2.06 - lost CCyR? Have returned to 50 mg Sprycel for 3 weeks, intending to reduce to 20 mg going forward.
Posted 06 June 2016 - 06:57 PM
Kat73 wrote, "I once asked a nurse practitioner this question about 6 years ago - if the message came down from some genetic screw-up to bust up chromosomes 9 and 22, what's to keep that message from continuing to be sent, even if you kill every last leukemic cell in your body? She said that was a very good question."
Actually - chromosome 9 and 22 are tightly bound in the nucleus prior to mitosis - and they are tightly bound right where the translocation that creates the bcr-abl oncogene is located. When the chromosomes unwind to prepare for cell division (and DNA replication) translocation errors can (and often do) occur. Cells that have these errors are normally benign and die off (apoptosis), some cells like bcr-abl are more stable and will reproduce with the new gene intact. In sufficient numbers they trigger a T-cell response which attacks them and destroys them (immune response). The immune response doesn't have to be complete (i.e. some bcr-abl or other aberrant cells) - just sufficient to keep the numbers low (i.e. below detection). The bad cells either die out or go quiescent.
CML and related diseases (transcription errors) result from a failure of the immune system. There may be a genetic reason for immune weakness which enables CML to start and grow. But I have become convinced that 9;22 translocation errors are common in the population and we - who get CML disease - have an immune failure, not the fact the cells were created in the first place.
Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)
with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein
Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate
6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.
2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
March 2017 PCR: 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
June 2017 PCR: "undetected"
September 2017 PCR: "undetected"
Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:46 PM
Posted 06 June 2016 - 09:24 PM
If you think about what happens during the cell cycle (http://www.cellsaliv...ll_cycle_js.htm) in which we start as one cell and divide, differentiate into trillions of cells all the while increasing in size, complexity and function it is any wonder that we evolved at all. Of course - it did take 4.5 billion years to get the processes set up to "fix" mistakes and keep us humming.
Translocations in all kinds of our cells are COMMON - including bcr-abl. What makes it cancer is that nothing occurs to stop rapidly dividing cells from rapidly dividing or differentiating into a final state.
A true cancer cure lies in immunotherapy - either induced or acquired. TKI drugs work to control the cancer - but are not a cure. Those patients who manage to achieve treatment free remission are likely to have re-developed an immunity against the residual defective cells.
In terms of children - I would bet that most children who proceed quickly from chronic phase to blast crisis are lacking in sufficient vitamin D. I have no reference to cite on this - but based on my collective reading, vitamin D drives blast cells (normal as well as leukemic) to differentiate. In children this need is high. It is a shame that more parents are not aware of the importance of vitamin D to their childrens health (http://www.webmd.com...-more-vitamin-d). And it's vital for adults as well. I keep my vitamin D above 50ng/ml and less than 100ng/ml.
Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)
with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein
Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate
6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.
2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
March 2017 PCR: 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
June 2017 PCR: "undetected"
September 2017 PCR: "undetected"
Posted 07 June 2016 - 09:20 PM
IMO, one of the most important stat facts coming out of the trials, is that the great majority of patients who lose MMR (0.1) during a trial, regain MMR and PCRU/CMR relatively quickly after restarting their TKI.
This hopefully will help to dispel some of the fear associated with stopping, or reducing, TKI treatment.
For the benefit of yourself and others please add your CML history into your Signature
02/2010 Gleevec 400mg
2011 Two weakly positives, PCRU, weakly positive
2012 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU
2013 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, weakly positive
2014 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU (12/07 began dose reduction w/each continuing PCRU)
2015 300, 250, 200, 150
2016 100, 50/100, 100, 10/17 TFR
2017 01/17 TFR, 04/18 TFR, 07/18 TFR 0.0012, 08/29 TFR 0.001, 10/17 TFR 0.000
2018 01/16 TFR 0.0004 ... next quarterly PCR 04/17
At the earliest opportunity, and whenever possible, lower your TKI dosage; TKIs are toxic drugs and the less we take longterm the better off we are going to be ... this is especially true for older adults.
In hindsight I should have started my dosage reduction two years earlier; it might have helped minimize some of the longterm cumulative toxic effects of TKIs that I am beset with.
longterm side-effects Peripheral Artery Disease - legs (it's a bitch); continuing shoulder problems, right elbow inflammation. GFR and creatinine vastly improved after stopping Gleevec.
Cumulative Gleevec dosage estimated at 830 grams
Taking Gleevec 400mg an hour after my largest meal of the day helped eliminate the nausea that Gleevec is notorious for.
Trey's CML Blog - Stopping - The Odds - Stop Studies - Discussion Forum Cessation Study
Big PhRMA - Medicare Status - Social Security Status - Deficit/Debt
Posted 08 June 2016 - 07:04 AM
IMO, one of the most important stat facts coming out of the trials, is that the great majority of patients who lose MMR (0.1) during a trial, regain MMR and PCRU/CMR relatively quickly after restarting their TKI.
"Eighty-six patients experienced a loss of major molecular response (BCR-ABL1IS 0.1%), which triggered re-initiation of nilotinib. Of these patients, 85 regained major molecular response after a median of 7.9 weeks, and 76 regained molecular response 4.5 after a median of 13.1 weeks. The other patient discontinued from the study due to their own choice 7.1 weeks after re-initiation, before they had regained major molecular response."
This hopefully will help to dispel some of the fear associated with stopping, or reducing, TKI treatment.
"Great majority" ... I think there is only one case of a patient progressing to advanced disease after having stopped therapy and re-start - and that case was not CML progression but a new disease associated with many comorbidities. The reality is that all patients who are otherwise healthy and have achieved PCRU were able to regain their status after re-starting their TKI. And they regained it quickly. Those are very good odds.
Anyone who has been PCRU for more than two years should strongly consider stopping their therapy with monthly PCR supervision to see if they are one of the lucky ones. The risk is so low that it would be a shame not to try.
Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)
with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein
Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate
6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.
2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
March 2017 PCR: 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)
June 2017 PCR: "undetected"
September 2017 PCR: "undetected"
Posted 08 June 2016 - 07:29 AM
UC Health where I go does the cessation trials. I have one year left of PCRU and I will be stopping Sprycel. If I'm not one of the lucky ones I'm hoping to go on reduced dose at least! For my doc you have to be undetected for all 3 of the PCR tests they do. My first test with my new doc here I had 2 undetected and one was very low but still detected. The last 2, I go every 6 months, were all undetected.
Posted 08 June 2016 - 11:57 AM
IMO, one of the most important stat facts coming out of the trials, is that the great majority of patients who lose MMR (0.1) during a trial, regain MMR and PCRU/CMR relatively quickly after restarting their TKI.
"Eighty-six patients experienced a loss of major molecular response (BCR-ABL1IS 0.1%), which triggered re-initiation of nilotinib. Of these patients, 85 regained major molecular response after a median of 7.9 weeks, and 76 regained molecular response 4.5 after a median of 13.1 weeks. The other patient discontinued from the study due to their own choice 7.1 weeks after re-initiation, before they had regained major molecular response."
This hopefully will help to dispel some of the fear associated with stopping, or reducing, TKI treatment.
85 regained major molecular response after a median of 7.9 weeks, and 76 regained molecular response 4.5
"Great majority" ... I think there is only one case of a patient progressing to advanced disease after having stopped therapy and re-start - and that case was not CML progression but a new disease associated with many comorbidities. The reality is that all patients who are otherwise healthy and have achieved PCRU were able to regain their status after re-starting their TKI. And they regained it quickly. Those are very good odds.
quickly is the operative word ... if you note above, not all regained PCRU/CMR "quickly." As much as not all of us initially reached PCRU quickly, some take longer to regain PCRU/CMR, as some did initially.
For the benefit of yourself and others please add your CML history into your Signature
02/2010 Gleevec 400mg
2011 Two weakly positives, PCRU, weakly positive
2012 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU
2013 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, weakly positive
2014 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU (12/07 began dose reduction w/each continuing PCRU)
2015 300, 250, 200, 150
2016 100, 50/100, 100, 10/17 TFR
2017 01/17 TFR, 04/18 TFR, 07/18 TFR 0.0012, 08/29 TFR 0.001, 10/17 TFR 0.000
2018 01/16 TFR 0.0004 ... next quarterly PCR 04/17
At the earliest opportunity, and whenever possible, lower your TKI dosage; TKIs are toxic drugs and the less we take longterm the better off we are going to be ... this is especially true for older adults.
In hindsight I should have started my dosage reduction two years earlier; it might have helped minimize some of the longterm cumulative toxic effects of TKIs that I am beset with.
longterm side-effects Peripheral Artery Disease - legs (it's a bitch); continuing shoulder problems, right elbow inflammation. GFR and creatinine vastly improved after stopping Gleevec.
Cumulative Gleevec dosage estimated at 830 grams
Taking Gleevec 400mg an hour after my largest meal of the day helped eliminate the nausea that Gleevec is notorious for.
Trey's CML Blog - Stopping - The Odds - Stop Studies - Discussion Forum Cessation Study
Big PhRMA - Medicare Status - Social Security Status - Deficit/Debt
Posted 08 June 2016 - 04:29 PM
Posted 08 June 2016 - 06:33 PM
Buzz, I think 13 weeks is "quickly" especially for us turtles.
Gail, please reread the comment; not all regained PCRU/CMR in 13 weeks; that's the point; some will take longer.
For the benefit of yourself and others please add your CML history into your Signature
02/2010 Gleevec 400mg
2011 Two weakly positives, PCRU, weakly positive
2012 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU
2013 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, weakly positive
2014 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU (12/07 began dose reduction w/each continuing PCRU)
2015 300, 250, 200, 150
2016 100, 50/100, 100, 10/17 TFR
2017 01/17 TFR, 04/18 TFR, 07/18 TFR 0.0012, 08/29 TFR 0.001, 10/17 TFR 0.000
2018 01/16 TFR 0.0004 ... next quarterly PCR 04/17
At the earliest opportunity, and whenever possible, lower your TKI dosage; TKIs are toxic drugs and the less we take longterm the better off we are going to be ... this is especially true for older adults.
In hindsight I should have started my dosage reduction two years earlier; it might have helped minimize some of the longterm cumulative toxic effects of TKIs that I am beset with.
longterm side-effects Peripheral Artery Disease - legs (it's a bitch); continuing shoulder problems, right elbow inflammation. GFR and creatinine vastly improved after stopping Gleevec.
Cumulative Gleevec dosage estimated at 830 grams
Taking Gleevec 400mg an hour after my largest meal of the day helped eliminate the nausea that Gleevec is notorious for.
Trey's CML Blog - Stopping - The Odds - Stop Studies - Discussion Forum Cessation Study
Big PhRMA - Medicare Status - Social Security Status - Deficit/Debt
Posted 08 June 2016 - 08:32 PM
Tasigna does not seem to have any significant advantage over Gleevec or Sprycel for cessation success. All results are about the same. Of those who are well qualified for cessation trials using any drug, maybe 40 - 50% succeed, but total success rate for all patients is still about 20%. Also, when success includes loss of PCRU that is not a good metric for succeeding in my opinion. So even the 50% is skewed.
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users