50 replies to this topic

[CallMeLucky]

Yes - he said the prostate was normal, so that was good, if he had found nodules then I think I would be moving straight to biopsy.  There is a big part of me that thinks this will not turn out to be anything.  I have a history with groin pain and there is a chance this is due to a chronic prostatitis.  The only problem with that is the doctor really didn't think that was it.  However if you read up on people's experiences with prostatitis, doctors often dismiss it.  There is no way to diagnosis prostatitis, it is like fybromyalsia, basically you get it as a diagnosis when everything else is ruled out.

But at the end of the day 4.4 is pretty high for my age and puts me in the 25%-30% range of having prostate cancer.

Granted those odds are not that bad, but I already lost this lottery once and more than anything else, I'm just tired, I'm tired of thinking of cancer, I'm tired of dealing with death and illness for myself and my family, I am just so damn tired of all of this.  I regret getting my physical, every time I step into a doctor's office I walk out with a bigger problem.  I never should have asked for the PSA at this time, I opened Pandora's box and now I can't close it.

He said there was no point in repeating the test now because if the result was due to an inflamation or infection it wouldn't be any different and we would move to biopsy unnecessarily.  He said to do the round of anti-biotics (even though he didn't think they would help) and then repeat the test and hopefully it is something transient and will clear up by next test.  He said if we repeat the test, even if the number goes down to 2 or 3, he would still look to do a biopsy since I am too young to really have any elevated PSA.

Frank - sorry you have had to deal with both.  I think a biopsy is in my future, but Dr wants to wait the 6 weeks.

Dan- Good luck on your physical - hopefully you won't have any issues.

Thanks for the comments Teddy

[ChrisC]

Ah, Lucky, Lucky, Lucky,

You are so strong! Getting hit with so many things, all at once, who knew you had it in you to deal with all these things? Truly, daily life is a war zone sometimes, and naturally there is a stress response to it. Call it PTSD, shell shock, whatever, it's stress taking its toll.

Perhaps the high PSA reading is an indication that there is too much stress. Have you sought out stress-reducing techniques? I know, when to find the time? However, that is when we need it the most, right?

Anyway, our thoughts are with you: wishing you peace of mind and body. So sorry that it is all hitting at once, or at all, but you are doing well: reaching out, sharing the load. Carry on!

ChrisC

See: http://www.huffingto..._n_1008990.html

[LivingWellWithCML]

I definitely believe that anxiety can play a factor.

[Sneezy12]

Stress has nothing to do with an elevated PSA.

[CallMeLucky]

Not directly, but stress is a factor for Prostatitis, which can cause elevated PSA.

[Sneezy12]

Lucky-Thank you for the information. Please send me the scientific, non-anecdotal studies relating to this. Regards, Frank

[ChrisC]

Hi Frank,

Please share with us your scientific studies that prove stress has nothing to do with elevated PSA elevated PSA levels aren't influenced by stress.

Thanks,

ChrisC

Message was edited by: ChrisC

[Sneezy12]

Hi Chris-If one researches pertinent websites, such as The Mayo Clinic, PubMed (NIH),The American Urological Association, The American Cancer Society, MerckMedicus,etc.,etc., one finds no mention of stress affecting PSA levels. Regards, Frank

[ChrisC]

And yet:

http://www.sharecare...prostate-cancer

Q: Can chronic stress increase the risk prostate cancer?

Dr. Dean Ornish answered:

Chronic stress may increase the risk of prostate cancer. In a study, men who experienced high levels of stress were more than three times as likely to have elevated prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels than were men who experienced low levels of stress. Also, those with low social support were nearly twice as likely to have high PSA levels as those with high social support.

Find out more about this book: The Spectrum: A Scientifically Proven Program to Feel Better, Live Longer,...

. . . Ornish's spectrum consists of nutrition (extremely low in fat, vegetarian), exercise (aerobic, resistance training and flexibility), stress management (yoga, meditation) and nurturing relationships, and he describes how they influence specific conditions. . . .

[Gorgumplatz]

To all,

Just a reminder to beware of people with tiltes like Dr. or MD that use terms like "scientifically proven". Using such expressions would NOT get you very in a doctoral (PhD) program and surely will not get published in any credible peer-reviewed scientific journal. Beware of weasel words like "scientifically proven". To me, it smells like pseudo-scientific psycho babble.

Sorry if I have burst anyone's ballon.

Don D 

[ChrisC]

Good point, thank you, Don.

I posted Dr. Dean Ornish's answer since he is well known and has appeared on network news programs for many years. I felt that if he were to have been speaking through his hat that he'd certainly have been called on it by serious researchers by now, but who knows with this stuff, right?

There are certainly disagreements in the science and medical communities about many things. We are all learning as we go, and sharing, and listening to replies.

Not really trying to convince anyone about anything, really. My opinion is that stress is not helpful.

Chris C

[Gorgumplatz]

ChrisC

I have to agree with you about learning as we go and that stress is not helpful.  Then again, the late Dr Hans Selye who pioneered medical research on stress at the University of Montreal pointed out that certain kinds of strees are necessary for the organism. I think it may be interesting to look at the work he has done. I must point out that he was not a media star but an academic researcher that got quite a bit of press  and media coverage for his research work on stress.

While I do not watch much TV, I suspect that the "hard core" scientific medical research community does not pay much attention to the claims made by popular TV medical so-called "experts" and gurus. Why would they bother?

Don D

[ChrisC]

Hi Don D,

Yes, I am familiar with Hans Selye! Wonderful guy. I saw a symposium with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and Dr. Selye in the 1970s, and it was wonderful. Here is a reference to it, and some more articles and doctors' references. The more we look into it, the more we are finding. Obviously, it's all up to being seen through our own glasses of expertise and interest, so again, I'm not trying to convince anyone, just sharing.

BTW, did you click on the link for Dr. Dean Ornish, above? Impressive credentials. it seems; perhaps I am naive and easily impressed scientifically though.

Thanks for participating in the discussion!

ChrisC

Re Maharishi and Hans Selye:

From http://www.newtimes....03/98-03-tm.htm

"Since Maharishi held a Bachelor of Science degree, and was comfortable with scientific jargon, he approached the West with familiar and respected concepts. In the 70s, Maharishi held audiences with Hans Selye, leading expert on the concept of stress. Popularizing Selye's research, Maharishi made the point that meditation was the answer to the problem of stress. Soon, teams of TM teachers approached large corporations with research data indicating that employee job performance improved with stress reduction. By the 80s, corporations were paying generously to have stress management experts on staff."

Study by Dr. Dean Ornish et al:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18559852

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2008 Jun 17;105(24):8369-74. Epub 2008 Jun 16.

Changes in prostate gene expression in men undergoing an intensive nutrition and lifestyle intervention.

Ornish D, Magbanua MJ, Weidner G, Weinberg V, Kemp C, Green C, Mattie MD, Marlin R, Simko J, Shinohara K, Haqq CM, Carroll PR.

Source

Department of Urology, The Helen Diller Family Comprehensive Cancer Center, University of California, 2340 Sutter Street, San Francisco, CA 94115, USA.

Dr. David Katz: http://www.huffingto...e_b_681732.html

http://harvardmagazi...king-make-it-so
. . . Harrington says that it's useful to consider when we find these mind-body stories most convincing. "It's often when we're let down by the mainstream medical narrative of Western society"—which values concrete solutions and statistics. Such an approach fails to help chronically ill patients grapple with questions like "Why did this happen to me?" Mainstream medicine, Harrington continues, "often will answer that there is no reason, or that in effect the reason is dumb bad luck. Mind-body medicine is a tempting alternative for patients in such moments because it is all about connecting the 'why, when, and what now' of an illness back to a person's biography." Mind-body narratives give us a vocabulary for complex experiences like discontent and hope, she adds. "Stories can do things that science can't."

[CallMeLucky]

Here's the information I was reading, I don't know if it will pass muster or not, but I am just trying to understand what I have going on.  I don't want to be in denial, I know there is a good chance I have PC, but I also know that it would be unusual at my age.  If a benign issue could be causing the problem then I am obviously hoping that is what it is,

http://en.wikipedia....ss_and_hormones

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2374945/

Stress has also been convincingly associated with CPPS. Indeed, in a well designed study, Ullrich et al (Ullrich et al 2005) reported greater perceived stress during the 6 months after the healthcare visit was associated with greater pain intensity and disability at 12 months. Based on those findings, stress reduction is frequently advocated. Importantly, stress reduction can assist in reducing the disability and response to pain. Furthermore, men with CP/CPPS are more likely to suffer from neurologic and psychiatric conditions then control patients (Pontari et al 2005).

http://www.harvardpr...and-prostatitis

[ChrisC]

Lucky, it is hoped that the discussion helps in some way.

Fingers crossed that, in your chosen way, you find relief from the challenges you've been dealt this year!

You deserve to find peace, to enjoy your life, your family, your work, and that your health gets restored pronto.

Please do not settle for less: find something that works for you, to reduce stress and improve your appreciation of the joy of life.

It's worth finding, I believe.

Best wishes,

ChrisC

[Gorgumplatz]

ChrisC,

Thanks for sharing the references and links on stress. While I do not normally consider myself a stressed person and I am from a "hard core" science agnostic background, I  started to take yoga lessons this year to help my recovery process. I actually find it beneficial and it has given me a rather new perspective on dealing with my cancer treatment. To dissipate mental stress or anxiety, I would recommend Yoga and Tai Chi to anyone that is physically able. For myself, I have also found that regular physical exercise, like walking and cycling is also a great way to relax.

DonD

[CallMeLucky]

I agree, I started Tai Chi a short time back and the days I do it, it has helped, particularly with muscle pain.

[Happycat]

Lucky,

Sorry to hear about the PSA test, I hope it is just an anomaly, or at least of benign cause. I could swear I just heard the other day on the news that the PSA test led to a lot of unnecessary worry.  Can't quite remember if it was due to false positives or due to finding very slow growing tumors that would normally never become a problem. Anyway, I hope it all turns out okay for you.

Traci

[NotJack?]

Hey Lucky,  I have been offline for a while (keep getting password rejected).  Raising a Guiness to all going well for you.  Hope that it is just a stress reaction.  I just started Chen Tai Chi also, and hope that it works for me as well.  Take care, Jack