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Double Whammy - CML and Now the Cardiac Kid

Cardiac Iclusig Ponatinib

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#1 tinman1939

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 03:11 PM

CMLers -

 

It is with profound disgust that I announce that, in addition to CML, I now have to deal with cardiac issues that resulted in a recent hospitalization and angioplasty.

 

But first - the incredible irony of all this ...

 

This Thanksgiving, November 24, marked exactly 10 years since my original CML diagnosis. Instead of "celebrating" my 10-year cancerversary with family over a traditional Thanksgiving meal, severe chest and neck pain led me to the ER very early that day. I was soon transported to a cardiac care unit at another hospital where, two days later, I underwent an angioplasty for the insertion of one-of-three planned stents in my coronary arteries. Let's hear it for celebrating a 10-year cancerversary in style!

 

Seriously, I now have to deal with another angioplasty later this month, then months of cardiac rehabilitation, as well as new medications. This, on top of making sure my CML needs are still being met, too. Instead of a TKI, I now add a beta-blocker and other cardiac meds to my daily ingestion of the best pharmaceuticals this country has to offer.

 

An important note to those CMLers who, like me, are taking Iclusig, or Ponatinib. According to my cardiologist, the heart issues I experienced are not side effects of the Iclusig. He indicated it is genetics, more than anything else, and lifestyle, too (it's all about plaque build-up).  Although, for the record, my oncologist has not weighed-in on this; I believe he is still enjoying his holiday because I have yet to receive a call from him about the subject (after having notified his office last Friday that I would be discontinuing my TKI therapy for a few days while the cardiac team assessed my condition in the hospital). I can't wait to tell him how disappointed I am in his reaction (or lack, thereof) to my recent predicament. I see him next week in my quarterly visit to the oncology center (a renowned one, at that). A little of the luster has rubbed off his oncological care, I can tell you that much. Last night, I began re-taking my Iclusig (30mg/day).

 

Anyway, I just wanted to share my recent experiences with you.

 

Onward and upward.

 

Wayne

AKA TinMan1939

 



#2 kat73

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 04:10 PM

It never rains, it pours!  I am just so sorry about the whole thing you're going through.  I think you've touched on a real sore spot with us - the disconnect with the oncs when there's other trouble afoot.  I sometimes wonder why I trek so far 4 times a year - I guess I just want to be with the guy who will be one of the first to know when the cure arrives.  But, otherwise, in terms of "taking care" of us?  Like, even when quite possibly the stuff that just hit the fan is RELATED to our CML saga?  Nah.  No hands on.  Anyway, you go ahead and be mad and sad for awhile; someday this will be behind you.  It sounds like you were lucky to have medical intervention ASAP.  I have heard of many people - and one I have first-hand knowledge of - who have done just super well after bypass (am assuming stents are no worse) to the point that everyone including the patient has completely forgotten about it.  Back to full-on yard work (including stump digging by hand) and doubles tennis weekly.  Think of the cardiac rehab as a foundation for a whole new exercise regimen.  You're going to be even better than before! 

 

One other thing - take very good care of your emotional state.  You undoubtedly feel old and wrecked and like only more bad things are coming.  Way understandable.  I have come to think that CML can be so all-consuming for some of us that anything else on top of it almost gives us PTSD.  I've had several "Big Deal" items happen to me since the CML dx and each one really, really set me back.  There has definitely been a cumulative effect.  I struggle with that every day.  So, get help!  And, we're here, too.


Dx July 2009 on routine physical.  WBC 94.  Started Gleevec 400 mg Sept 2009.  MMR at 2yrs.  Side effects (malaise, depression/anxiety, fatigue, nausea, periorbital edema) never improved.  Kidney issues developed because of Gleevec.  Switched to Sprycel 70 mg in Aug 2011.  Above side effects disappeared or improved.  Have been MR3.5 - 4.5 ever since.  Two untreated pleural effusions followed by one treated by stopping Sprycel Jan 2017.  After 9 weeks, PCR showed loss of MMR; re-started Sprycel at 50 mg and in 3 months was back to <0.01% IS.  Pleural effusion returned within a couple of months, same as before (moderate, left side only).  Stopped Sprycel 50 mg for 12 weeks; pleural effusion resolved.  At about a monthoff the drug, PCR was 0.03; at 11 weeks it was 2.06 - lost CCyR? Have returned to 50 mg Sprycel for 3 weeks, intending to reduce to 20 mg going forward.


#3 scuba

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 04:25 PM

Hi Wayne - so sorry that this is happening. Did you have an actual 'heart attack' - or was it the warning signs and they found the blockages in time with no damage to the heart?


Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)

with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein

 

Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate

6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.

 

2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale) 

March        2017 PCR:     0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

June          2017 PCR:     "undetected"

September 2017 PCR:     "undetected"


#4 Buzzm1

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 11:33 PM

Sorry to hear about the latest addition to your health problems Wayne.  As if you, or any of us, needed any more of a burden to carry.  Although arterial plague buildup can't be directly attributed to TKI's, CML & TKI's certainly don't contribute to wanting to exercise more, especially for seniors.  I recently posted about painful circulation problems (peripheral artery disease) in my right leg; after examination my vascular doctor talked to me about the possible need for stents in the future and how there is a low rate of success in terms of duration for stents in the thigh, and even less in the calf, where my problems exist.  He also mentioned the hopefully remote possibility of the need for amputation should my problems worsen.  With CML, my get up and go, got up and went ... trying to regain some of that zest for life that I had.  

 

Stick around Kat; we need your pep talks.  


For the benefit of yourself and others please add your CML history into your Signature

 

02/2010 Gleevec 400mg

2011 Two weakly positives, PCRU, weakly positive

2012 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU

2013 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, weakly positive

2014 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU (12/07 began dose reduction w/each continuing PCRU)

2015 300, 250, 200, 150

2016 100, 50/100, 100, 10/17 TFR

2017 01/17 TFR, 04/18 TFR, 07/18 TFR 0.0012, 08/29 TFR 0.001, 10/17 TFR 0.000

2018 01/16 TFR 0.0004 ... next quarterly PCR 04/17

 

At the earliest opportunity, and whenever possible, lower your TKI dosage; TKIs are toxic drugs and the less we take longterm the better off we are going to be ... this is especially true for older adults.  

 

In hindsight I should have started my dosage reduction two years earlier; it might have helped minimize some of the longterm cumulative toxic effects of TKIs that I am beset with.  

 

longterm side-effects Peripheral Artery Disease - legs (it's a bitch); continuing shoulder problems, right elbow inflammation.   GFR and creatinine vastly improved after stopping Gleevec.

 

Cumulative Gleevec dosage estimated at 830 grams

 

Taking Gleevec 400mg an hour after my largest meal of the day helped eliminate the nausea that Gleevec is notorious for.  

 

Trey's CML BlogStopping - The OddsStop Studies - Discussion Forum Cessation Study

Big PhRMA - Medicare Status - Social Security Status - Deficit/Debt


#5 Gail's

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 03:57 AM

Very sorry, Tinman. I hope you recover nicely from this ordeal and can soon put it in the past. As if CML isn't enough, huh?
Diagnosed 1/15/15
FISH 92%
BMB 9:22 translocation
1/19/15 began 400 mg gleevec
1/22/15 bcr 37.2 IS
2/6/15 bcr 12.5 IS
3/26/15 bcr 10.3 IS
6/29/15 bcr 7.5 IS
9/24/15 bcr 0.8 IS
1/4/16 bcr 0.3 IS
Started 100 mg dasatinib, mutation analysis negative
4/20/16 bcr 0.03 IS
8/8/16 bcr 0.007 IS
12/6/16 bcr 0.002 IS
Lowered dasatinib to 70 mg
4/10/17 bcr 0.001 IS
Lowered dasatinib to 50 mg
7/5/17 bcr 0.004 IS
8/10/17 bcr 0.001. Stopped TKI in prep for September surgery.
9/10/17 bcr 0.006
10/10/17 bcr 0.088

#6 tinman1939

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:41 AM

Scuba -

 

I had slightly elevated troponin levels after the first of five angina attacks (over four days), but nothing like you would see in a full-blown heart attack. As a result, the oncologist said there was no evidence of heart damage. That, my friend, is a huge relief. 

 

Wayne

AKA TinMan1939



#7 scuba

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:31 AM

Scuba -

 

I had slightly elevated troponin levels after the first of five angina attacks (over four days), but nothing like you would see in a full-blown heart attack. As a result, the oncologist said there was no evidence of heart damage. That, my friend, is a huge relief. 

 

Wayne

AKA TinMan1939

 

That's good to read ... no heart attack.

 

When I was able to get my CML under control and it sunk in that CML is not going to kill me, I realized we can't ignore our "other" health as we get older. Heart disease runs in my family. My father had 4 stents put in and then died of a stroke a few years later. My oldest brother had a single stent put in a year or so ago. So I am actually more aware of my heart - and specifically - artery health than I am CML at this point in my life.

 

A little over three years ago my wife decided I was going to have a full physical (first one in 20 years!) and sure enough I had very bad exercised induced hypertension during the treadmill test (normal blood pressure at rest, very high with exertion).

 

A subsequent carotid artery ultrasound showed dramatic wall thickening (plaque). They stopped the treadmill test after 30 seconds! Working in front of a computer coupled with my family's genes were setting me up for something bad.

 

I visited a cardiologist recommended to me by my primary doctor and he wanted to put me on beta blockers and statins and all sorts of other drugs. I told him - I am first going to try diet and exercise. He said that is best - but no one does it. I told him no choice on my part. I can be determined.

 

So - I started to walk 3 miles a day - And actually dropped 30 pounds. I looked good before, I look better now.

But the big change was not the exercise itself. It was my diet change using supplements for what was missing that had the greater impact.

 

Our arteries are composed of three layers with smooth muscle in the middle. Our arteries are designed to facilitate the pumping of blood by both dilating and contracting as needed. They are supple, strong and quite elastic. They accommodate all manner of fluid increase and decrease and pressure to balance fluid flow demands (oxygen) by the body. It is quite remarkable. With poor diet, our artery walls are under near constant irritation and respond by inflaming - much like the way your skin inflames if you keep scratching it. The scratching of our arteries is caused mostly by sugar (glucose). The body repairs this inflammation using cholesterol - intended to be temporary - the way a scab is temporary. Overnight during sleep these lesions can actually heal - if we let them. At the same time during inflammation our body will deposit calcium into the arteries along with cholesterol (causing atherosclerosis) hardening them into stiff pipes. That is what was happening to me. My arteries were getting hardened all over. I felt it in my legs when I started to walk 3 miles a day.

 

The good news is atherosclerosis is reversible. But not in one day. It took 20 years to build, it will take years to undo - but it can undo faster than build up. That is good.

 

Exercise alone won't do it - in fact - exercise without fixing the artery problem could cause a stroke. And that runs in my family - so I had to be careful. My doctor told me specifically NOT to exercise intensely until I had the blood pressure under control. 

 

I learned how vitamin K2 (abundant in fermented foods) in conjunction with vitamin D is used by the body to create enzymes which move calcium out of soft tissue and put it in bone. I was very low in both vitamin D and K2 - and so no surprise about my hardening arteries. I increased my vitamin D level and K2 levels to high normal and over one year my carotid artery thickness dropped by 46% ! The following year it dropped another 20% . My cardiologist was stunned. He never saw that. He said at best, his patients keep the readings where they are or slow the rate of increase. Most important, however, was that my exercise induced blood pressure became normal again. I am a believer in vitamins D and K2 for artery health.

 

I started to run instead of walk three miles a day and added sprinting. I can now run faster than some of the teenagers in our neighborhood. My resting heart rate is in the low 60's to upper 50's. Although I am still somewhat anemic from the Sprycel (mild myelosuppression), I have a lot more energy.

 

Along with vitamin D and K2 (200mcg per day along with fermented foods) I take the following:

 

1. Omega 3- (krill oil)

2. Cinnamon with chromium (sugar control)

3. Zinc / selenium

4. Magnesium (at least 400 mg sometime 600-800 per day)

5. Only grass fed beef.

6. Curcumin (lots of it)

7. Garlic (4 grams per day or food)

8. Nuts (almonds)

 

All the best to you - make sure you get a treadmill test and slowly carefully increase your exercise to force your arteries to expand and contract. That helps them heal - but only if you have the healing "tools" flowing in your bloodstream.


Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)

with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein

 

Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate

6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.

 

2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale) 

March        2017 PCR:     0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

June          2017 PCR:     "undetected"

September 2017 PCR:     "undetected"


#8 steelpony5555

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:34 AM

Join the club....pacemaker for the past 5 years and angiogram last Monday ....just the on
going battle with heart disease and CML and Diabetes and Neuropathy and arthritis....etc etc etc.....lol lol lol the fight goes on....

#9 tinman1939

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 12:24 PM

Scuba -

 

Thanks for the insightful overview of your coronary experience. A couple of points:

 

I plan to be actively involved in a cardiac rehabilitation program (three days a week; one-to-two hours a day; over at least the next three months) once I get the other two stents in place. The program features EKG-monitored exercise, education and lifestyle-modification tips. There is also a maintenance-type program following, which I assume would be indefinite in length.

 

With respect to Vitamin D, for the past couple of years I have been taking a D3 supplement (2,000 IUs), hoping for some benefits there.

 

Wayne

AKA TinMan1939



#10 Buzzm1

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 01:13 PM

TKI-induced Cardiovascular Toxicity in Chronic Myeloid Leukemia http://www.cancerthe...article/575775/via @CancerTherAdvsr

 

Tyrosine kinase inhibitors (TKIs) have dramatically increased survival for patients with chronic myeloid leukemia (CML), but long term treatment is associated with an increased risk of arterial and venous adverse events. The most common of these are hypertension, congestive heart failure, and coronary heart disease. 

 

A recent retrospective study of 896 patients with CML found relative risks of 1.5 and 2.0 for arterial and venous events among those treated with TKIs. Patients treated with nilotinib or dasatinib also had higher rates of myocardial infarction than those receiving imatinib.1 Survivors of cancer who develop cardiovascular disease have significantly worse outcomes than those who do not.2

 

A report in Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics discussed the mechanisms of small-molecule TKIs on cardiovascular toxicity and related intercellular signaling. The report examined the pathophysiology of TKI-induced cardiovascular toxicity and proposed systems-based approaches to understanding the phenomenon.3

 

TKIs inhibit the cell signaling pathways that control various cellular functions by competing with adenosine triphosphate (ATP) to bind to the cell's ATP receptors. Because of this, TKIs are not entirely specific to their intended molecular target, which can lead to the inhibition of off-target kinases that may play a crucial role in the survival and function of other cells. This, in turn, can cause cardiovascular toxicities.

 

A number of multi-target TKIs, including sunitinib, sorafenib, pazopanib, axitinib, vandetanib, cabozantinib, ponatinib, and regorafenib interfere with vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) signaling. These have been successful in targeting tumor angiogenesis and growth, but also carry a risk of introducing cardiovascular toxicities, primarily through endothelial cell death, capillary rarefication, and impaired vasodilation.

 

Continue reading: http://www.cancerthe...article/575775/


For the benefit of yourself and others please add your CML history into your Signature

 

02/2010 Gleevec 400mg

2011 Two weakly positives, PCRU, weakly positive

2012 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU

2013 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, weakly positive

2014 PCRU, PCRU, PCRU, PCRU (12/07 began dose reduction w/each continuing PCRU)

2015 300, 250, 200, 150

2016 100, 50/100, 100, 10/17 TFR

2017 01/17 TFR, 04/18 TFR, 07/18 TFR 0.0012, 08/29 TFR 0.001, 10/17 TFR 0.000

2018 01/16 TFR 0.0004 ... next quarterly PCR 04/17

 

At the earliest opportunity, and whenever possible, lower your TKI dosage; TKIs are toxic drugs and the less we take longterm the better off we are going to be ... this is especially true for older adults.  

 

In hindsight I should have started my dosage reduction two years earlier; it might have helped minimize some of the longterm cumulative toxic effects of TKIs that I am beset with.  

 

longterm side-effects Peripheral Artery Disease - legs (it's a bitch); continuing shoulder problems, right elbow inflammation.   GFR and creatinine vastly improved after stopping Gleevec.

 

Cumulative Gleevec dosage estimated at 830 grams

 

Taking Gleevec 400mg an hour after my largest meal of the day helped eliminate the nausea that Gleevec is notorious for.  

 

Trey's CML BlogStopping - The OddsStop Studies - Discussion Forum Cessation Study

Big PhRMA - Medicare Status - Social Security Status - Deficit/Debt


#11 scuba

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 01:36 PM

Scuba -

 

Thanks for the insightful overview of your coronary experience. A couple of points:

 

I plan to be actively involved in a cardiac rehabilitation program (three days a week; one-to-two hours a day; over at least the next three months) once I get the other two stents in place. The program features EKG-monitored exercise, education and lifestyle-modification tips. There is also a maintenance-type program following, which I assume would be indefinite in length.

 

With respect to Vitamin D, for the past couple of years I have been taking a D3 supplement (2,000 IUs), hoping for some benefits there.

 

Wayne

AKA TinMan1939

 

Add 200 mcg of vitamin K2

 

http://www.nutraceut...t_health/114933

 

You want to take the MK-7 (menanquinone) form of K2. Studies show that to be most effective.

 

Vitamin D and K2 work together. In fact, by taking K2 - it helps the body keep vitamin D in balance (removes excess should that occur).  http://www.vitamindw... Than You Think


Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)

with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein

 

Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate

6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.

 

2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale) 

March        2017 PCR:     0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

June          2017 PCR:     "undetected"

September 2017 PCR:     "undetected"


#12 gerry

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 05:03 PM

Hi scuba,
Thanks for the info, I have been struggling with side effects of the statins etc that I have had to return to since stopping gleevec. Will look into the cinnamon/chromium and the k2. Already on tumeric and fish oil. I will think about the vit d as we are just coming into summer here and I get some sun in the morning and evening when I walk.

#13 scuba

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:03 PM

Hi scuba,
Thanks for the info, I have been struggling with side effects of the statins etc that I have had to return to since stopping gleevec. Will look into the cinnamon/chromium and the k2. Already on tumeric and fish oil. I will think about the vit d as we are just coming into summer here and I get some sun in the morning and evening when I walk.

 

"I will think about the vit d as we are just coming into summer here and I get some sun in the morning and evening when I walk."

 

Unless you are near naked - you won't get enough sun on your skin. But some sun on some skin is better than none. Enjoy your summer - winter is coming up here. El Nino is no more. That does not bode well for our winters. It's going to get real cold. 

 

http://www.climatede...ost-entire-usa/


Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)

with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein

 

Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate

6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.

 

2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale) 

March        2017 PCR:     0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

June          2017 PCR:     "undetected"

September 2017 PCR:     "undetected"


#14 gerry

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:23 AM

Thanks scuba, my city is in the sub tropics and Australia also has the highest levels of skin cancer in the world. Must be all those other Aussies walking around naked. :-) I will try the other supplements first, then try the vit D. After that I have to give up I guess, cholesterol has been an issue even when I was underweight, I am in the low end of the normal weight range now. You've given me some new things to try so thank you for that.

#15 scuba

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 08:01 AM

Thanks scuba, my city is in the sub tropics and Australia also has the highest levels of skin cancer in the world. Must be all those other Aussies walking around naked. :-) I will try the other supplements first, then try the vit D. After that I have to give up I guess, cholesterol has been an issue even when I was underweight, I am in the low end of the normal weight range now. You've given me some new things to try so thank you for that.

 

Make sure you have your vitamin D blood level tested (25-hydroxy test). It will inform you on where you are and what supplement amount is best.

 

When I was first tested almost 4 years ago, my levels were 17 ng/ml ... borderline rickets. Over several weeks I slowly raised that level to where it is now - ~70 ng/ml where I maintain it. 

 

There is strong evidence in the role of vitamin D and heart health - but not conclusive:

 

http://www.hopkinsme..._the_heart.html


Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)

with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein

 

Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate

6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.

 

2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale) 

March        2017 PCR:     0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

June          2017 PCR:     "undetected"

September 2017 PCR:     "undetected"


#16 gerry

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 07:00 PM

Next time I see the GP I will ask for one. Would love to be able to get off the Ezetrol, the muscle cramps from it are far worse than the gleevec for me, though the celery seed is helping with that.

#17 Melanie

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:29 PM

So sorry to hear about your heart issues Wayne and on Thanksgiving too! It's interesting to read on here about some of the health issues that are popping up with long term TKI use. I realize much of it is genetics and lifestyle generated, but I can't help but think that the TKI adds an extra layer of concern. So much is still unknown with our miracle drugs and I'm so grateful for this forum and everyone sharing their experiences.
Dx - 05/2011; PCR: 15.04; Fish: 87% Slow responder due to pancytopenia. Current - Bosulif - Nov: 2012, Mar 2016 lowered to 300 mg. 07/16 back to 400 mg. Clinical trial drug, Promacta, Feb 2013, for low Platelets.
CyCR - Aug 2014, Positive for 1 chromosome Sep 2015. PCR: 12.77 in Oct, 2012 to 0.04 (MDA) in Mar, 2016. 4/2016 - 0.126 (Local lab (IS); 05/2016 - 0.195 (local); 6/2016 - 0.07 (MDA); 7/2016 - 0.03 (local) 9/13/2016 - 0.16 (MDA); 9/26/2016 - 0.31 (MDA); 11/2016 - 0.012 (local); 01/2017 - 0.24 (MDA); 04/2017 - 0.09 (MDA); Cytogenetics show der(1:7)(q10;p10)7 chromosome mutation. Repeat of Sep 2015. PCR - 6/2017- 0.035 (local); 10/2017- 0.02 (MDA)

#18 Trey

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 10:38 PM

I highly recommend you take Scuba's formula :

 

1. Omega 3- (krill oil)

2. Cinnamon with chromium (sugar control)

3. Zinc / selenium

4. Magnesium (at least 400 mg sometime 600-800 per day)

5. Only grass fed beef.

6. Curcumin (lots of it)

7. Garlic (4 grams per day or food)

8. Nuts (almonds)

 

....and put it all in enema form, and put it up your a$$ (putting a whole grass fed beef in there may require a fulcrum and lever-- please consult Mr Euclid's calculations).

 

All will be cured.  All will be well.  All will be....up your a$$.  You will also Mooooooo out your a$$.

 

Then it's off to see the wizard.  Say "hello" to Dorothy.


Edited by Trey, 03 December 2016 - 10:40 PM.


#19 gerry

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 01:00 AM

Sorry tinman I think we hijacked your thread. :-)

#20 scuba

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 09:08 AM

I highly recommend you take Scuba's formula :

 

1. Omega 3- (krill oil)

2. Cinnamon with chromium (sugar control)

3. Zinc / selenium

4. Magnesium (at least 400 mg sometime 600-800 per day)

5. Only grass fed beef.

6. Curcumin (lots of it)

7. Garlic (4 grams per day or food)

8. Nuts (almonds)

 

....and put it all in enema form, and put it up your a$$ (putting a whole grass fed beef in there may require a fulcrum and lever-- please consult Mr Euclid's calculations).

 

All will be cured.  All will be well.  All will be....up your a$$.  You will also Mooooooo out your a$$.

 

Then it's off to see the wizard.  Say "hello" to Dorothy.

 

Diet and exercise play a very important role in artery health. Your rant is irksome. To suggest that diet and exercise play no role in health especially in the prevention of disease is wrong. 

 

http://www.choose-he...ml#.WEQn5dUrKUk

 

http://www.heart.org...55_Article.jsp#

 

http://www.drsinatra...ts-of-turmeric/


Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)

with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein

 

Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate

6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.

 

2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale) 

March        2017 PCR:     0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

June          2017 PCR:     "undetected"

September 2017 PCR:     "undetected"






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