26 replies to this topic

[Frogiegirl]

http://democrats.ove...ses-for-epipens


Sometimes it's hard not to be angry when I hear things like this. I find my rage getting worse lately. .... I wonder if it's cml or my lack of coping skills,or both. I need help. Not enough of us to make a big stink? Who knows. ...

[tazdad08]

This subject just pi$$es me off also. I don't know if it is "government oversight" or if people are paid to turn the other cheek. The huge profit margin by the big pharma companies is nothing less than a disgrace of the American society. It shows how money runs the lives of so many while it cause grief and distress to the ones that are in need. There is such a difference in "need" and "want". I want money but I need my meds.... so which do choose? This greed leaves to many of us having to chose whether to live or just survive!!!

[r06ue1]

Isn't that what Capitalism is all about, making a profit (and larger profits every year to keep the shareholders happy)?  

[beno]

The executives at Mylan will get $77 million in bonuses if they hit certain targets and Epipen is one of their major products.

 

http://money.cnn.com...id=hp-stack-dom

[scuba]

The solution lies in greater competition - (see graph below). We need a way to generate faster competition.

Right now, big pharma, and big government create competitive hurdles.

 

For generics, competition is already driving down cost. But for novel new targeted drugs such as TKI's, the monopoly they enjoy is becoming unaffordable. The solution here lies in shortening patent times, allow cross border sales and regulatory oversight during the patent period.

 

http://on.wsj.com/2criE3z

 

[rcase13]

There has to be some regulation to temper corporate greed.

[kat73]

Hear, hear.  Regulation is not anti-capitalist.  All human activity, including business and government, requires the oversight and checks and balances that regulation implies.

[chriskuo]

II think LLS should hire the anti-Mylan people to do PR on leukemia drug prices.

[Kali]

Hopefully competition and regulations on drugs will happen. It is abundantly clear that Big Pharma are unable to regulate themselves especially when they hold the monopoly. They justify their actions and believe themselves. 77 million in bonuses is just too juicy to pass up for the lust of greed. Any and all, whether it is paid government officials, stockholders or whomever is in the feeding frenzy will need intervention to improve the situation. Maybe that intervention is competition.

[r06ue1]

Keynesian economics lead to where we are now, with the idea of government intervention, debt, consumption and bailouts.  Where we are now is Crony Capitalism, where economic interests control the government and can do pretty much what they want, when they want.  Keynes himself warned against Crony Capitalism but what he failed to see (or live to see) is that his economic theories are exactly what lead to it.   

 

Both major political parties support Keynesian economics (Republicans say they despise it, but in reality, they support it, and their past proves this), if you want to fix the problem and you still believe that voting actually matters, vote Libertarian (Austrian school) or Green (Socialism), either is better than what we have today.

[thatguy]

I don't understand how anyone with cancer or deadly illness would ask for socialism or socialized healthcare. Being a number in a federalized data base overseen by a panel? Having researchers with lessened incentive to innovate? No thanks. No problem is solved when another serious one is created. Somebody's still paying somewhere. The solution is common decency, unfortunately there's no legislation for that. Federal subsidies really create higher inflation, as the private/end consumer isn't regulating the market demand. Scuba has it right, here.

[chriskuo]

Thatguy,

 

Using the buzzwords socialism and common decency do not advance the discussion,

 

May I ask who is paying for your TKI?

 

Do you call Medicare socialism?  Government provides much of the funding, but the providers are mostly private.

 

VA is an example of a mostly socialist system.

 

Medicaid and county health care are hybrid systems.

 

Providing health care is  much more complicated than throwing around ill-defined buzzwords.

 

Capitalism is not successful without reasonable regulations.  It is an art and a science in balancing the costs and benefits of regulations.

[r06ue1]

thatguy, hate to burst your bubble there but most innovation has come from government grants to universities, not from private industry.  Private industry does contribute, but the really exiting stuff comes from universities working with public and private donations.  One such example is the possible CML cure which was developed at the University of Glasgow, not a private corporation, and much of the immunotherapy research going on today is also being done at universities.  

 

 

 

Policymakers and corporations alike rely on universities to convert publicly funded science into knowledge and ultimately new products that drive economic growth.

 

http://www.reuters.c...N0RG0CX20150916

 

Gleevec paid for itself back in 2004 and the price has risen over 500% since then.  The question then becomes, where do all of these huge windfall profits go to?  Do they go to research or do they go into someone's coffers?  My bet is the later and it is all of us that pay for these huge profits together (everyone with private insurance and also through taxes).  The only difference between this system and Socialism is a few people get very rich in this one and it isn't the one's making the discoveries (Scientists) that are getting wealthy.  

 

But not to worry about those huge price increases!  With 3D printed medicine on the way, I can see the end of Big Pharma not too far behind.  

 

https://3dprintingin...ight-now-42867/

 

https://www.theguard...rints-out-drugs

[Gail's]

Interesting concept. I was trying to figure out how paying for the "recipe" for a medicine would work. And how it could be one time use only instructions to the printer so on couldn't sit at home cranking out an endless supply. I can see this being helpful on a larger scale in that pharmacies could manufacture the meds in the store, cutting out shipping costs and delays. Would be a way for folks without the 3D printer to get their meds.

[Buzzm1]

Now that three companies (Sun, Teva, and Apotex) are marketing generic Imatinib/Gleevec in the U.S. I am hoping that anyone on the generic will post the price and manufacturer.  As posted previously, Novartis has recently increased the price of Gleevec to $138,000/yr. from $132,000/yr..  Thanks in advance.  

[thatguy]

Thatguy,

Using the buzzwords socialism and common decency do not advance the discussion,

May I ask who is paying for your TKI?

Do you call Medicare socialism? Government provides much of the funding, but the providers are mostly private.

VA is an example of a mostly socialist system.

Medicaid and county health care are hybrid systems.

Providing health care is much more complicated than throwing around ill-defined buzzwords.

Capitalism is not successful without reasonable regulations. It is an art and a science in balancing the costs and benefits of regulations.

I had a much lengthier reply, that I've since deleted. All I will say is, the solution isn't larger government, or more government intrusion, it's the removal of laws which restrict medicine availability, and increase operational costs. I Don't care to waste any more time, nor emotions on the matter, when opinions won't be swayed.

Note: I didn't know "socialism" and "common decency" were buzz-words. That's intriguing.

[Silvertabby]

Buzz,

June, 2016 Gleevec (Novartis). Walgreen's Specialty billed amount: $12,146.92. Premera BCBS paid $9,851.15
July, 2016 Imatinib (Sun Pharm). Walgreen's Specialty billed amount: $11,839.77. Premera BCBS paid $9.602.05
August, 2016 Imatinib (Apotex Corp). Walgreen's Specialty billed amount: $11,839.77. Premera BCBS paid $9,602.05


After almost 3 years, I received my second PCRU result. The first one was last December. The next two were .015 and .024. I am praying the cost will come down substantially very soon. I feel like I am single-handedly bankrupting Premera. I do not like depending on others to pay for my meds.

[Buzzm1]

Buzz,

June, 2016 Gleevec (Novartis). Walgreen's Specialty billed amount: $12,146.92. Premera BCBS paid $9,851.15
July, 2016 Imatinib (Sun Pharm). Walgreen's Specialty billed amount: $11,839.77. Premera BCBS paid $9.602.05
August, 2016 Imatinib (Apotex Corp). Walgreen's Specialty billed amount: $11,839.77. Premera BCBS paid $9,602.05

After almost 3 years, I received my second PCRU result. The first one was last December. The next two were .015 and .024. I am praying the cost will come down substantially very soon. I feel like I am single-handedly bankrupting Premera. I do not like depending on others to pay for my meds.

Silvertabby, thank you very much for that information ... the July Sun and August Apotex prices, being exactly the same, show collusion between Sun and Apotex on the price of generic Imatinib ... 

 

Assuming that the prices shown are for 30 X 400mg, the generic price of $11,839.77 calculates out to $144,050/yr.

 

I'm a little confused at this point because the price I obtained a few weeks ago from Kaiser for Novartis Gleevec 30 X 400mg was $11,371 which calculates out to $138,347/yr. ... the $12,146.92 that you were charged in June calculates out to $147,788/yr.

 

Glad to hear that you have hit PCRU ... it's not unusual to bounce in and out of PCRU at first .. did the same thing myself ... Good Luck to you and thanks again for the pricing information.   I hate the thought of the greedy Big PhRMA companies raking us over the coals ... 

[Buzzm1]

I tweeted the 22 members of the Senate Health Committee http://bit.ly/11EEmWL :

 

Despite three generics in the market, Novartis continues to increase the price of Gleevec, and the generics are too #CML @name

 

Please look into pricing collusion of Imatinib/Gleevec between Novartis, and the generics by Sun, Teva, and Apotex #CML @name

 

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[Silvertabby]

Yes, the prices I listed were for 30 X 400mg. Interesting about the cost through Kaiser. Is that before or after any discount. The cost Premera paid that I listed after the billed amount was with the discount. My copay was zero since I had met my deductible. I guess I should see what other pharmacies are available for me to use.

One thing that concerns me is what will happen in January when I must meet another deductible. In years past I used the copay assistance that Novartis offered until the deductible was satisfied. I wonder if that will be available from one of the other companies. If not, there is no way I will be able to afford it.

I thought it interesting that my onc was not happy when I told her I was now on the generic. She said she does not like generics and will be interested to see what my next test results show in November. I know Trey has said there is no difference. She does not agree.