12 replies to this topic

[Terran]

After asking my onc about my palpitations, he sent me to a cardiologist who ran several tests, 24 hour Holter monitor, ultrasound, and a nuclear stress test. The nuclear stress test showed a funny spot in the images. I'm 45 with naturally low blood pressure and cholesterol, but a history of previous smoking and my 67 yo father had a heart attack requiring stents last year. So cardiologist number 1 says I need an angiogram and he send s me to cardiologist number 2 for said procedure. When I meet with cardio #2, he said he'd do it, but he didn't think I needed it. I take tasigna. WTF?

[scuba]

Palpitations are often caused by ion imbalances - mostly Magnesium deficiency. I had similar palpitations that seemed like anxiety attacks along with missed beats. I did visit a cardiologist to get a baseline along with mentioning this to my Oncologist. They both told me to take Magnesium (as either Magnesium Citrate or Magnesium Taurate). Once I started taking 400 mg Magnesium, my palpitataions and funny heart beats disappeared. Muscle cramping in my legs also disappeared. 

 

https://www.wellbein...cues-the-heart/

 

http://www.drsinatra...r-heart-health/

 

TKI drugs (and drugs in general) deplete the body of Magnesium (direct pers. comm. from Dr. Cortes). It's bad enough TKI's (second gen. mostly) are toxic to the heart, missing enough Magnesium makes it worse.

 

As you have low blood pressure and low cholesterol (lucky you) - you don't have an issue with 'clogging'. You have an electrical issue most likely. Ions such as magnesium are vital for proper muscle (i.e. heart) function.

 

One additional point - blood tests for Magnesium are meaningless in terms of making sure you have enough magnesium. Your body will make sure blood level of magnesium falls in a very narrow range. It will scavenge magnesium from body tissues (i.e. muscles, heart) to keep the blood's magnesium level proper. This is vital for blood plasma chemistry. If you were to have low magnesium in your blood (hypomagnesemia), that would be a very serious condition.

 

http://emedicine.med...038394-overview

 

Your heart palpitations (and perhaps you have leg cramps at night?) may be a warning sign you are getting low on Magnesium in your muscle tissues. Time to fill up. Taking Magnesium at bedtime will help you sleep better too.

 

http://www.ancient-m...agnesium-sleep/

[Cathy]

Hi,  I get leg mostly feet cramps always have on sprycel. But Scuba, I tried taking the magnesium to help with it which it did but couldn't put up with the bathroom issues it causes. It helped the cramps maybe I should try taking it again. When I mentioned the bathroom issues (onc) he said well yes that is what magnesium does, and chuckled. My blood test as you say always show normal ranges so he didn't think it was necessary but said it would help the cramps in my feet.  At times I think my heart is irregular. But nothing that bad.

 

Terran good luck its really hard when you get two opinions from 2 doctors!

 

take care,

 

Cathy

[scuba]

Hi,  I get leg mostly feet cramps always have on sprycel. But Scuba, I tried taking the magnesium to help with it which it did but couldn't put up with the bathroom issues it causes. It helped the cramps maybe I should try taking it again. When I mentioned the bathroom issues (onc) he said well yes that is what magnesium does, and chuckled. My blood test as you say always show normal ranges so he didn't think it was necessary but said it would help the cramps in my feet.  At times I think my heart is irregular. But nothing that bad.

 

Terran good luck its really hard when you get two opinions from 2 doctors!

 

take care,

 

Cathy

 

Hi Cathy,

 

My blood test as you say always show normal ranges so he didn't think it was necessary,

 

It's interesting about doctors - 'he didn't think it was necessary' because your blood showed normal. They're not scientists. If he recalled his biochemistry from med school days, he may recall how magnesium is handled in the body and tightly regulated in the blood. The blood is the last place magnesium will drop. 

 

No matter - he is correct that magnesium can create bathroom issues. It doesn't for me ... because:

 

1. Take Magnesium Taurate (or Citrate, but I prefer Taurate) - NOT magnesium oxide.

2. Break the dose into two - one dose in the morning (I take 200 mg in the morning) with food. And one at night before bedtime.

3. If you still have issues - start with a lower dose and work your way up. Your body will acclimate. 

 

Best,

 

Michael

 

 

 

"My blood test as you say always show normal ranges so he didn't think it was necessary" ...

[Cathy]

Okay thanks I'll try that ! Splitting it. I do take the Citrate.

 

Cathy

[Trey]

For heart issues I would try adding several minerals: potassium, magnesium, phosphorous, & calcium.  All may not be the issue, but nothing wrong with a little extra of these.  Potassium has a large role in heart electrical signals.

http://www.webmd.com...-and-your-heart

 

For muscle cramps potassium helps me better than any other minerals, but magnesium may also be useful (small dosage). 

 

Overall, potassium shortage may be the most significant mineral issue with TKI drugs.

Edited by Trey, 10 March 2016 - 03:23 PM.

[scuba]

For heart issues I would try adding several minerals: potassium, magnesium, phosphorous, & calcium.  All may not be the issue, but nothing wrong with a little extra of these.  Potassium has a large role in heart electrical signals.

http://www.webmd.com...-and-your-heart

 

For muscle cramps potassium helps me better than any other minerals, but magnesium may also be useful (small dosage). 

 

Overall, potassium shortage may be the most significant mineral issue with TKI drugs.

 

Trey - do you have a reference for this:

"Overall, potassium shortage may be the most significant mineral issue with TKI drugs."

 

I was told explicitly at M.D. Anderson that Magnesium shortage is the most significant issue with TKI drugs (greater depletion) and that potassium (as well as phosphorus and Calcium) are more readily available. 

 

I'd love to read up on where you learned that k shortage is more important.

[Frogiegirl]

Very interesting. ..I've been low on potassium for over 9 months. ...I know, I know eat a banana already. ..but I hate them. Also recently had a echo cardiogram which came back normal but the feeling of heart palpitations and hollowness or feeling of stopping triggered me to bring it up to my doc. I even bought a wrist blood pressure cuff to check my pressure when I feel that way. Oh also I might add that my oncologist didn't want me to supplement potassium because of how much nausea I already feel taking tasigna, he referenced potassium supplements as upsetting your tummy??? I don't know just thought I'd share;)

[Trey]

I am sceptical of blood mineral measurements, so I think patient experience is more useful than doctor measurements.

 

It is my experience, trial and error with what works for me, that leads me to conclude potassium has the most impact on me personally.  A potassium pill resolves muscle cramping within a couple minutes, every time.  And when I golf on hot days in the summer and don't take a potassium supplement, the cramps often occur.  No other mineral is so successful or works so quickly for me.  I tried magnesium alone and it did not work for cramps.  So that is how I came to conclude that potassium is the major issue there.

 

Bananas are only a mediocre source of potassium.  Potatoes, beans, leafy vegs, and yogurt are better.  But overall supplements are the best way to deal with the issue.  I just use low dosage Walsharts supplements.

 

Regarding heart palpitations, IF it is a mineral shortage issue, potassium is very important for heart signalling, and we know it is an issue for us.  If people do some trial and error with individual minerals, they can hopefully shed more light on this issue as well.  Magnesium may also play a role, and I think taking it is also a good idea. 

[rcase13]

So my doctor has me on k pills now. They are impossible to swallow and they cause my already horrible acid reflux get much worse. Is there better way to take it that won't cause me to burp fire?

[Gail's]

Interesting discussion. My onc checks a ton of stuff monthly and my values come up normal every time. But the leg aches and heart rhythm irregularities are worse. I take a magnesium supplement. Maybe will try the k too

[Terran]

I've been taking magnesium citrate, as per Scuba's advice, for a few months. It didn't seem to help much till I added a potassium gluconate at the same time, bid. My most recent blood test showed low potassium still, despite using KCl on my popcorn. Both together seems better than either one by it self. I have a few more days to decide about the angiogram. And still waiting to hear back from onc. He was going to talk to first cardiologist and maybe tie break.

[Trey]

They are impossible to swallow and they cause my already horrible acid reflux get much worse.

I take the thin elongated type and they go down very smoothly.  I always take them with a meal, which avoids any stomach reaction.