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Acute Tooth Decay?


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#1 Tedsey

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:46 AM

I have always had excellent teeth. I had prided myself on my good oral hygiene and diet. I don't drink soda, rarely eat candy, etc.   Just today, I went for my six month check up and I need 12 fillings this time!  I never had any cavities until my first filling at 36. Since dx with CML four years ago, I have yet to have a dentist appt. without a need for fillings. Nothing has Changed in my diet or brushing/flossing habits. I am now in my 40s. It appears the enamel is breaking off in chunks where my teeth meet the gum on a few teeth. They are not decaying yet, but need to be filled. Is any of this related to CML, the TKI or low blood counts? I have a huge problem with mouth ulcers since staring Sprycel. Is this just bad luck? However, my gums are healthy. Has anyone experienced this? I am so distraught over this and depressed.

Tedsey



#2 GerryL

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 06:54 PM

Hi Tedsey,

I know Gleevec can affect your calcium and magnesium levels, so wondering if Sprycel is doing the same thing.

My dentist also had me start to use a toothpaste with additional flouride - you can only get if from a dentist here in Aus. You brush your teeth and don't rinse, eat or drink for 20 mintues. She got me to start doing this when I told her I had been diagnosed with CML.



#3 Trey

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:10 PM

That many decays means failing teeth, not poor hygiene.  The crumbling teeth could be caused by one or more issues.  The TKI drug is likely the initiator in the process.  TKI drugs cause mineral imbalances, and low phosphorous is one of the issues.  Phosphorous is necessary for strong teeth.  Oddly, a good source of phosphorous is cola sodas.  Counter-intuitive though that may seem, cola sodas may be good for your teeth and overall health while on TKIs.  I drink far more soda now than I ever did before taking a TKI.  The acidic part of the soda issue may be overblown compared to the benefit of the added phosphorous.  I eat lots of cheese to get highly absorbable calcium.  I also take potassium and magnesium pills when I work hard and sweat a lot.

But mouth acid is another issue.  With your perpetual mouth sores, your mouth is in a constant state of acidity.  Mouth sores have an acidic nature, which is why an antacid on them or swishing a base liquid helps sooth and heal them.  Keeping the acidity in the mouth lowered by whatever means would help.  I don't know if regular antacids in the mouth or some other method would work best.  That is a tough issue to address.



#4 ChrisC

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:58 PM

Hi Tedsey,

This is so scary! My sincere sympathy.

Here is an alkalizing and yummy recipe (and its history) for Bieler's Broth. I have enjoyed making it for years: my insides are so happy with a bowl of warm Bieler's Broth. I hope that if you try it, you find that it helps.

ChrisC

http://www.mindbodyg...y-to-detox.html


Be alert, but not overly concerned.

 

• Dx Oct. 22, 2008, WBC 459k, in ICU for 2 days + in hospital 1 week

• Leukapheresis for 1 week, to reduce WBC (wasn't given Hydroxyurea)

• Oct. 28, 2008: CML confirmed, start Gleevec 400mg

• Oct. 31, 2008: sent home when WBC reached 121k

• On/off, reduced dose Gleevec for 7 months

• April 2009: Started Sprycel 100mg

• Sept. 2009: PCRU 0.000

• Sept. 2011: after 2 years steady PCRU & taking Sprycel 100mg before bed, quit Sprycel (with permission)

• Currently: still steady PCRU, testing every 6 months 🤗

— Fatigue, hearing loss continue, alas, but I prefer to think it is all getting better!

 

 


#5 Tedsey

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:11 AM

Thanks to all of you for answering my cry of distress.  I did some researching, and there is a complaint on record (I think, a couple actually), that the practice has wanted to fill phantom cavities.  Strangely, the dentist and hygienist were conversing over me how slow business was this month.  I feel a bit suspicious and that I must get a second opinion.  I cannot find research that supports TKIs causing dental issues.  Most people just don't have this problem.  But this would be a side effect no one is really interested in writing about.  Who ever died from or can find just cause to sue over bad teeth?  I will heed the advice about the supplements (and possibly the cola--not much of a pop drinker or candy eater, but I think I can choke down the cola--heh, heh).    When I asked the dentist what more I could do to stop the issue, he said there was nothing I or anyone could do.  If my teeth are suddenly failing, I think I must go to the dentist as often as I see the onc.  That would be a drag.  Anyway, will run to the supplement store today!  I have already been swishing with a Maalox mix for my mouth sores. 

Where the enamel fell off, the last dentist said it was from grinding and my mouth guard should help, but he didn't feel he needed to do anything.  In the past, Call Me Lucky on the board mentioned the same thing,  Anyway, I will try what you all suggest.  I used fluoride toothpaste and swish with fluoride mouthwash.  I am now oil pulling with organic, virgin, coconut oil to help cut down on bacteria and maybe reduce the Ph.  We have a pretty sad dental plan.  It appears we have only a few the bottom of the barrel dentists to choose from.  I may just pay out of pocket for 2nd opinion.  Sadly, I have to take my kids to the same office today for a check up.  Wonder how that will turn out on this slow month. 

I have been feeling very stressed and scared, since I have rushing in my ears again, and I have pain in the area of my spleen.  I am having trouble with my hands being stiff (mild pain tho).  They crunch when I turn door handles and try to open jars, type, fine motor stuff.  I find it incredibly hard to put sheets on the bed.  It seems to be ligament related.  I am also having trouble seeing (far, despite glasses).  Perhaps these are side-effects?  Since I seem to swing from one end of the pendulum to the other so fast with health issues, I am terrified of blast crisis.  The teeth thing only adds to the inferno.  If all is well, maybe 100mg. Sprycel is just too much for me now.

Now that I am coming out of the panic zone, thanks again,

Tedsey          



#6 Tedsey

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:25 AM

So much for all those silly articles about if eat low-fat, more veggies, take care of your teeth, yada, yada, you will prolong your life.  Like it is a formula.  So, does this "formula" work for most people?  I think most of it is a crock (full of you-know-what).  I have to face facts that I am a genetic anomaly.  I just do all the right things and get horribly sick anyway.

I think I will stop stressing to find time to go to the health club and now start a strict diet of eating pie.  I like pie.

Teds



#7 Tedsey

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:30 AM

And, yes.  I have heard that stress is bad for your teeth.  Ugggh!



#8 Marnie

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:04 PM

Tedsey. . last year I cracked 2 teeth and had to get crowns.  All of the stress was making me clench my jaws and grind my teeth 24/7.   I think you need to find some sort of stress relief.  Take care of yourself!!  (Easier said than done).



#9 GerryL

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:51 PM

Hi Tedsey,

Two things -

1. I had a dentist a number of years ago who told me that I needed a lot of replacement fillings, I believed him and had nearly all my fillings replaced by him. At my last appointment with him, he made this strange comment about me joining a health fund and he would replace all my fillings again with gold. I realized then that I needed to find a new dentist, which I have done. I've managed to find two dentists who I trust if I need a filling replacement, which is seldom. Learnt a hard lesson that you can't always trust everyone in the medical field.

2. Interesting you talk about your hands making a crunching noise - within the last year most of my joints seem to be making a noise with movement. Worst is my neck as the sound is so close to my ears, it gives me a start. Other people are able to hear the noise from it as well. My specialist told me it was probably osteo arthritis and not Gleevec related. But it seems to be an issues in a lot of joints in my body.  I also get a bit of pain when I open and close my hands. I think some of the noise in my neck is from ligaments sliding across the bone as it feels like a twang going on, but I can also hear some low level crunching when I turn my head. I think it is too wide spread to not be Gleevec related.



#10 Tedsey

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 02:53 PM

Hi Gerry,

I wrote to a holistic dentist yesterday asking for a second opinion.  On her website, she stresses that she believes in talking care of the "whole person".  I like that approach.  I liked the dentist I usually see.  I felt he was honest.  However, it looked like he was in the midst of some serious dental work on another patient when I walked in.  I ended up with his new employee who seemed very young and fresh out of dental school (both good and bad).  I wondered if as a new employee, and especially on a slow month, he felt pressure to impress by presenting a big bill.  I don't know.  I was just suspicious.  However, since he made his dx, I cannot see where my regular dentist would not stand behind him despite the fact that I may not need all that work (or any of it).  It would be a hard place to stand.  So, I cannot ask my regular dentist to take a look.  I have to go elsewhere.  Hopefully, I chose a good person.  I was very discouraged when I asked the young dentist what I could do about the decay, he told me there was absolutely nothing.  I cannot find good dentist recommendations right now from anyone.  No one appears to love their dentist and just gives them a "good enough" rating.  So, I started to search for a holistic one.  This is probably the best idea due to CML.  The other dentist just said, well, if it is allowed by your oncologist, then OK.  Thus, he sees the mouth as separate from the whole organism it is attached to (i.e. the body).

After some reading, I have come to believe that tooth decay is still a mystery to dental professionals and the research is often contradictory (they still cannot find a cure or know what exactly causes decay and mouth sores for that matter).  And it is many times a judgment call on what is considered a cavity (although the office I visited used a laser cavity detection wand to try and determine the depth of the decay when spotted).  Not sure about the laser wand technology or if it is really sound.  I also know that teeth, as they are bone, and as bones do, regenerate.  There are things you can do to help that process (and possibly reverse decay).  I would like to try a mineral routine, such as what you and others mentioned.  I continue to pull oil (this may help heal decay).   Of course, there is a diet theory.  However, I am not sure how I will stay away from the evil foods mentioned (legumes, grains, nuts--a big source of protein in my diet--I'll read up more on it).  It doesn't seem practical and I am not sure about the evidence that certain foods definitively cause decay (with the exception of processed, little or zero nutrient food).  My people are long past the hunter-gatherer stage and I don't grow my own food (so said these people had little or no decay).  I will try meat broth.  It appears to have good reviews, if not just healthy for bones anyway.        

I know you are well educated in the use of supplements, (and CML), and are familiar with holistic medicine.  There are way too few holistic practitioners (and my insurance never covers them).   BTW, my husband also had some neck issues.  I have a little soreness, so I bought a couple therapeutic pillows that are supposed to work like traction on your neck (I will be edited if I give brand name--if you want to know, feel free to pm me).  At first I would get headaches and dizziness (it was so weird).  But I kept at it, little by little.  Now, I like the pillow and find my neck feels OK (it has only been since Christmas, so its success is yet to be really determined).  I too thought about osteo arthritis.  It appears it is prevalent in younger and older women despite the TKI.  As I am in my 40s and female, I think it may be hard to pin it totally on the TKI.  I could very well be getting arthritis.  I have been taking it very easy with my hands and it seems to help (I am extremely heavy handed and do everything with way too much force and twisting).  I also get terrible pain in my lower legs and arms (usually at the same time).  My 87 year old mother in law gets this and has been dx with neuropathy.  I think I have it too.  Why would I see a doc?  More meds I don't want to take.  There is no cure.  I will just live with it.  I know Sprycel could be the culprit.  Exercise and stretching helps a little. 

The one thing I totally worry about now, besides the disease progressing, is the TKI accelerating the breakdown of my body.  I think you can relate.  At first, I was happy just taking the TKI no matter what.  However, if I will lose all my teeth, have neurological and heart diseases, etc. as a result, I am not so sure I want to keep on such a high dose (the thought of never having to take another pill looks good too, but I feel that is not my destiny like yours).  I totally understand that the drug is prolonging my life.  And I know people who do not have this disease may consider me lucky there is successful treatment.  I may be considered looking a gift horse in the mouth.  Well, I would like them to temporarily live with what we have and what we do, just to understand (of course I am just saying this, I wouldn't wish leukemia or cancer on anyone).  I consider most of our CML complaints legit and the quality of our "prolonged" life important.  I sometimes worry something else brought about by the drug will get me way before the leukemia does, or I will be disabled in some way due to prolonged use.  That would really suck.  But only time will tell.  The TKIs are still all so new.  We are the pioneers.  I think it may be possible the drugs could be re-engineered to not cause PE, or PAH, or QT Prolongation, neuropathy--whatever the major players are.  However, since the drugs work well enough for most, I don't the see pharma's desire to re-engineer to get rid of these known side effects.  People with CML are still a minority of the population and I think those of us who cannot go off the drugs may just have settle with what we can get.  Being monitored so often is a plus. 

All the best to you!  We have been having sub zero temperatures in Chicago.  Hope your summer is not too hot and the weather is fine.  It really helps with one's mood!

Thanks so much for your input, I value it.

Tedsey



#11 GerryL

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 07:31 PM

Hi Tedsey,

I've tried to PM you, but can't work out how to add friends. I'm just going round in a bit of a circle. If you know how to "friend" me, please do so.



#12 hannibellemo

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:33 AM

Hi, Teds,, "

Thanks for your well wishes in another post! I had to write about the crunches and pops you're experiencing. That's called crepitus and iif that doesn't depress you I don't know what will - think "decrepit"!

Seriously, though, I learned the term when I was having PT after breaking my humerus. (Never, ever say to yourself upon reaching 40, " ...and I've never broken a bone", it's just tempting fate, never a good thing.) As the therapist was working at straightening my arm I mentioned I had this feeling of crackling and crunching around the elbow - I wasn't hearing it exactly, it was more just a feeling. Evidently it's air in the tissues and joints (sort of like when you crack your knuckles, although that's something I've never been able to do).  It doesn't really signify an issue or anything, it's pretty normal for an aging body. That's the depressing part!

Anyway, I still get a rushing sound occasionally and I still convince myself that my spleen is enlarged (even though my platelet count remains under 200 generally). This's generally right after an appointment with my onc - they check my spleen regularly and even though I've sure they've been able to touch my spine, they can never find my spleen.

It's amazing how we can mess with our own minds with this disease!

Pat


Pat

 

"You can't change the direction of the wind but you can adjust your sails."

DX 12/08; Gleevec 400mg; liver toxicity; Sprycel 100mg.; CCyR 4/10; MMR 8/10; Pleural Effusion 2/12; Sprycel 50mg. Maintaining MMR; 2/15 PCRU; 8/16 drifting in and out of undetected like a wave meeting the shore. Retired 12/23/2016! 18 months of PCRU, most recent at Mayo on 7/25/17 was negative at their new sensitivity reporting of 0.003.<p>


#13 Tedsey

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 04:27 PM

Pat,

I have been feeling very decrepit lately.  I also have a bit of an upper respiratory my son gifted me.  So, I have been feeling unwell.  It always panics me when I get sick.  I fear my immune system will never make it back.  So far, so good.  Wish I could put all my money on the odds that have been in my favor.  Not sure why I am so bent on torturing myself (life long habit, I guess).  I wish I could just turn off the "worry" switch.  As I was taught in Zen Buddhist meditation, the lesson was, "live in the now".  Everything is OK in the now.  It was all well and wonderful when I was considered healthy (just this last Thanksgiving, a family friend shouted out in front of everyone, "For an extremely ill woman, you look absolutely fabulous!"  Knowing her, a nurse, I think she was sincere.  But the public announcement was not appreciated.  It was sort of a wake up call.  I  don't consider myself "extremely ill".  But I guess that is how others see me who about the CML.  That is why I am trying to stuff the cat that got out of the bag, back in (in-laws and family blabbing).  No need to take out the kitty in almost all situations.  It just sets me up for more of what I got at Thanksgiving (ironically, my hem/onc considers me extremely healthy, but I have to remind her that the CML sort of cancels everything out--which woman is right?).  Now, I just think, in this moment, I am sick, and in that moment and in that moment.  The moments become insurmountable.  I am probably a person who should be continually sedated!  I guess in my case, old age should be a bear if I am so lucky to be afflicted.

Thanks for enlightening me with the term "creptius".  Love how it makes one think of decrpit.  I am certain whoever coined the term had that in mind.  And thanks for the caveat regarding broken bones.  I very much understand that I am NOT the master of my destiny (and it feels like the fates love to play with me).  Just wish I could handle feeling so out of control.  Please, someone smite me with denial!!!  Just don't let it make me forget my daily pill.

Take care.  Be well!

Teds



#14 GerryL

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:47 PM

Thanks Tedsey,

Will PM you when I get a few moments.



#15 rct

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:36 AM

I'm sorry to hear of your tooth troubles Tedsey.  I realize you don't have enough to do as it is, so...

Around 2008 or so, Mrs was going to University of Penn in Philly.  We stayed there quite a while before understanding that again another big time teaching hospital isn't really interested in boring CML patients.

While there we went to a few seminars or conferences or whatever they could be called.  One very good one, still stands out today to us, was on dental care for the cancer patient.  At that time, Penn had an entire group called Oncological Dentistry.  It was about what these drugs can do to perfectly healthy, normal mouths once a person starts taking them.  It was very good stuff, and we were hopeful.

I don't know if they are still doing it, and I doubt they are.  Insurance just doesn't pay for that stuff.  I know I'm the grouchy guy in the room all the time, but it is true, there just isn't any money for them in looking after cancer patients teeth.  The one thing we learned that stayed with us was the Biotin suggestion.  Most, if not all, chemo type drugs seriously impact saliva production, and that saliva is vital to tooth/enamel/gum health.  Mrs has been using it a few years with some relief of some of the mouth/tooth symptoms.

She, like you, had a pretty spectacular setta choppers in there before this.  Not any more.  Too many root canals now, two have failed, too many problems in there.  One tooth is about to kill her but she don't even want to go because it will just be more crap.  It really really sucks, and we feel your pain.

I hope you find someone.  Good luck with it.

rct



#16 GerryL

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:12 PM

Hi Tedsey,

LLS doesn't like me - I can't PM you, it says you're not a friend. Could you try to PM me and if that doesn't work, I'll try getting my email address sent through Trey. He's the only one that now appears in my friend list. Hopefully Trey will be okay with that, of course I'm assuming that you have Trey listed as a friend.



#17 Trey

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:23 PM

The Friends lists are squirreled up.  Mine appears to have been dumped at some point.  I don't even see you.

You could ask Teds to Friend you:

http://community.lls...Asc&sortOrder=1

Type her name in the search box



#18 GerryL

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:34 PM

Hi Trey,

Tried that - Teds managed to send me a friend's request which I accepted, but she doesn't appear as a friend so I can't message her back. You were still appearing in my Friends area and I've just tried to send a message to you and it seemed to go, so perhaps my "hello" will disappear into the ether.






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