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First CBC with sprycel . Neutropenia start


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#1 mabdou2005

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:57 PM

Today it was my first CBC after one month with 100mmg S  The result as follow

WBC IS 4.7  it was 6.4

Plt is 150 it was 285

Hg is 12.5 it was 12

Rbc is 4.09 it was 4.12

Neutrophils is 27% (1.29) it was 55%(3.54)

Lymphocytes is 61.5%( 2.87) it was 34.1% ( 2.17)

Is this the start of  bone marrow suppression ?

How long time i need to do PCR or FISH to think about reduce to 50mmg ?

My impression about S is very big deal till now becouse of the big differance in side effect  between 600mmg of G and 100 Mmg S. like the differance between hell and paradise

No fog brain ,muscles cramp ,joint pain,puffy eye,puffy face, general fatigue all is finish . During this month  my  quality of life has improve very mush  i hope  it continue

I think 100mmg of S is same like 200mmg of G which i had for 3 years

Thank's for reply

M abdou



#2 Trey

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:06 PM

Your counts are still high enough, so it is too early to say.  Many have lower counts.  The key will be the FISH and PCR, and we hope they go lower.



#3 mabdou2005

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:41 PM

Thank's Trey

You thing 3 month will be enough to do PCR  or i can do it befor or after?

M abdou



#4 scuba

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:34 PM

M abdou,

You need to be very careful and have blood counts taken (CBC) at least once per week to monitor - especially Platelets and Neutrophils.

Don't be concerned about percentages, follow the absolute numbers (how many Neutrophils, etc.).

If your Neutrophils fall below 1.0 - you may want to suggest to your doctor a dose reduction. 100mg is full dose and many do very well on a lower dose.

I am on 20mg Sprycel and I am close to PCRU. You may not need 100mg.


Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)

with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein

 

Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate

6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.

 

2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale) 

March        2017 PCR:     0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

June          2017 PCR:     "undetected"

September 2017 PCR:     "undetected"


#5 mabdou2005

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:46 PM

Thank's MIchal

I will do that but when you think it will be suitable to do PCR or FISH?

M abdou



#6 scuba

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:54 AM

FISH and PCR can be done at three months. Right now you need to focus on getting the correct dose that you need that minimizes myelosuppression. Right now your body is adjusting to the drug. Your normal blood system has to overcome the suppression effects of Sprycel which it will likely do. As long as you are taking Sprycel, there is a very high chance you are also killing many CML cells and your next FISH/PCR will reflect that.

Test your blood weekly. If Neutrophils fall below 0.5 (or 0.7), your doctor may want you to stop taking Sprycel until your Neutrophils return above 1.0. If this does happen, you may want to re-start Sprycel at a lower dose (50mg). Much of this will depend on your doctor. Oncologists not familiar with Sprycel may not want to reduce dose and instead try Neupogen stimulation. Dr. Cortes (my Oncologist) does not prefer to do this. He uses dose modification and drug interruption to manage myelosuppression (so long as there is no blast issue).

I only had to interrupt Sprycel once before I stabilized and returned to near normal, but I was re-started on a much lower dose which I have continued to take to this day.


Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)

with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein

 

Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate

6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.

 

2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale) 

March        2017 PCR:     0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

June          2017 PCR:     "undetected"

September 2017 PCR:     "undetected"


#7 Trey

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:24 AM

Three months will give the Sprycel enough time to see how well it is working, so that is reasonable. 



#8 scuba

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:34 AM

It is interesting to note, Trey, that PCR change by more than an order of magnitude can be measured in as little as six weeks. Six weeks is usually used between tests to document a new upward trend (i.e. loss of response). In a decreasing trend - 3 months is the norm.


Diagnosed 11 May 2011 (100% FiSH, 155% PCR)

with b2a2 BCR-ABL fusion transcript coding for the 210kDa BCR-ABL protein

 

Sprycel: 20 mg per day - taken at lights out with Quercetin and/or Magnesium Taurate

6-8 grams Curcumin C3 complex.

 

2015 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

2016 PCR: < 0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale) 

March        2017 PCR:     0.01% (M.D. Anderson scale)

June          2017 PCR:     "undetected"

September 2017 PCR:     "undetected"


#9 mabdou2005

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:09 AM

Hi Micheal

Thank's so much for your advice .i will  share all new data i'll have weekly  because of  my ONC is not familiar with S. i am the first one in all my city treat with S and in all EGYPT there is avery few people start treat with S . So i will focus in CBC and than wait to the next step

M abdou



#10 Trey

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:28 AM

That depends on the individual.  Not everyone has a 1 log change within 6 weeks of changing drugs.  But 3 months is enough time to assess whether the drug change has made a significant difference.



#11 Tedsey

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:15 PM

Dear Mabdou,

I switched from a standard dose of Gleevec to 100mg of Sprycel in August 30, 2010 (don't ask me why I remember that date, I guess in my little life it was an important event).  After 3 months, I achieved CCR.  I am still on 100mg Sprycel and remain CCR (according to my onc).  Although Spycel is considered one of the strongest TKIs and gives many people a deeper response quickly, it is not always the case.  Trey can correct me, but I think at 1 year around 50% have had a MMR.  That is a decent result, but, it is more or less, 50/50--but, it is higher than Gleevec according to BMS). 

Instead of dose reduction, my hem/oncs gave me shots of Neupogen,  Neulasta, Aranesp, and blood transfusions.  As my counts were getting worse on Gleevec (and my PCR remained flat after 9 months), my onc felt it couldn't hurt to try Sprycel.  On Sprycel, we did the same routine, shots, transfusions, etc.  After about a year, my counts came up to a point where I could get away without shots and transfusions.  However, I still have pancytopenia.  It is just not dangerously low as before.  Luckily, my immune system appears to be working.  I have been able to fight off common bacteria and viruses.  And I am not sick all the time.  Just like before I was diagnosed with CML, I hardly got sick (that is why my diagnosis was such a big shock to everyone--I was always the "healthy" one).  I do worry about coming across something serious, but ironically, an acquaintance's husband almost died from a rare virus recently.  He was very healthy.  And I have been living with low counts and have leukemia.  So, I am either lucky, (because I was near him right before he got sick), or my counts are high enough to ward off evil (just, kidding, I mean, protect me from other sickness).

You are concerned about the decrease in your counts.  I understand.  I was very worried too.  But, I have now lived with pancytopenia and for years.  I feel healthy, I have been healthy, I am very active and exercise daily, I don't feel any side-effects, and live a normal life (well, as normal as can be with a deadly disease--I view the CML like a crouching tiger always ready to spring, but I really hope the Spycel is taking the spring out of his crouch--sorry, just trying to be funny).  My little son is now in public school and is exposed to many things.  I also worry about that, but I survived preschool (lots of snotty toddlers and diapers).  Nevertheless, since I cannot see the bacteria and viruses coming at me, I just try to be wise.  I keep my hands away from my face, wash my hands and use hand sanitizer (like most crazy germaphobic mothers in the USA do--and some with healthy blood are much crazier than I). 

From your last post, your counts still look good.  This may or may not lead to myelosuppression, etc.  In my case, it was not a gradual decrease in counts.  With hydoxyurea and Gleevec, my counts plummeted immediately.  Then my counts went up and down when I was only on Gleevec, (but always low).  On Sprycel, my counts upped a little, but have not really recovered, especially my PLT.  Just wanted to let you know if you do become myelosuppressed, try not to get too worried.  There are things that can be done to help and keep you healthy.

Please keep posting how you are doing.  I wish you good health and good counts.

Tedsey



#12 mabdou2005

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:11 AM

Dear Tedsey

Thank's alot for your worm and insspiring reply . The only advantage i have with CML that i knew a very respectable and good people from this board . Trying to help  and support me  and many other people with there experience with CML  which form a very helpful knowledage to me i can't got it from my ONC  which i see him every 3month  for only 3 minutes

But by virtue of the expert colleagues here like you and trey , micheal  i learn many things . I 'll share in new data i will have next week hoping good health and count for all of us

And GOD cure  all of us

M abdou



#13 mabdou2005

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:51 AM

Hi all

Seconed CBC  after 2.5 month on S

WBC  3.7

PLT 222

HG  12.6

RBC 3.99

Neutrophilis  1.01        27.2%

I will see my ONC next wednesday and i will ask to do PCR after 2 weeks  and  i willl discuss with him to reduce S to 50mmg

M abdou



#14 hannibellemo

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 10:57 AM

Hi, mabdou!

Just wanted to share with you my counts on both 100 mg. Sprycel and 50 mg. Sprycel. As you can see there is little discernible differences between the two, so don't assume that a reduction in dosage will greatly increase your counts.

Feb 2012 ( on 100mg Sprycel for 2.5 years but just before PE and subsequent Sprycel break of 9 weeks)

WBC 3.7

RBC  3.9

Neut.  1.9

HgB  12.3

Platelets  231

Oct. 2012 (on 50 mg. Sprycel since May 2012)

WBC  3.5

RBC  3.4

Neut.  1.8

HgB   12.0

Platelets  217

My counts, although slightly below low normal, are considered rock solid stable and I'm not concerned about them at all.

I'm sure they will keep an eye on your neuts but my Mayo onc doesn't get concerned until they approach the .5 range (The lowest mine ever got was on Gleevec at .9). The numbers I prefer to stress over are the all important PCR numbers; I get those drawn (for the 2nd time on my reduced dosage) this coming Tuesday - keep your fingers crossed for me.

Good luck to you!

Pat


Pat

 

"You can't change the direction of the wind but you can adjust your sails."

DX 12/08; Gleevec 400mg; liver toxicity; Sprycel 100mg.; CCyR 4/10; MMR 8/10; Pleural Effusion 2/12; Sprycel 50mg. Maintaining MMR; 2/15 PCRU; 8/16 drifting in and out of undetected like a wave meeting the shore. Retired 12/23/2016! 18 months of PCRU, most recent at Mayo on 7/25/17 was negative at their new sensitivity reporting of 0.003.<p>


#15 mabdou2005

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:36 AM

Hi Pat

Thank's for sharing your counts I can see that ther is no differance between 50 and 100 mmg hopping that your PCR  keep big zero

I will pray to you

But the Strange thing for me that why onc don't switch to tasigna when PE  found or the reduced dosage is enough

Good luck on Tuesday

M abdou



#16 hannibellemo

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:53 AM

Thanks, Mabdou! I never have reached PCRU, but I did lose MMR status when I stopped Sprycel for the 9 weeks. I will be happy to regain that!

My onc knows that I really did not want to change drugs and have to work through yet another set of side effects after my disappointing liver toxicity on Gleevec and the horrid first few months on Sprycel. I am happy to live with the devil I know at a lower dose if it continues to reduce my BCR/ABL. That's why no one pushed a drug change. Plus, I see no benefit to these jackrabbit switches. Not everyone responds quickly but, some more like the tortoise - slow and steady. I say give a drug a chance to work as long as there are no serious reasons otherwise.

Best to you,

Pat


Pat

 

"You can't change the direction of the wind but you can adjust your sails."

DX 12/08; Gleevec 400mg; liver toxicity; Sprycel 100mg.; CCyR 4/10; MMR 8/10; Pleural Effusion 2/12; Sprycel 50mg. Maintaining MMR; 2/15 PCRU; 8/16 drifting in and out of undetected like a wave meeting the shore. Retired 12/23/2016! 18 months of PCRU, most recent at Mayo on 7/25/17 was negative at their new sensitivity reporting of 0.003.<p>


#17 Tedsey

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

Dear Mabdou

I am sad to see anyone of us worry so much about blood counts.  I was scared out of my wits until I found my second onc.  She was very calm and never alarmed about anything.  It really helped me.  She just told me what to watch for and if nothing unusual happened, to just live my life as I normally would.  Anyway, my counts got very low on Gleevec.  I needed shots to bring up my ANC and HGB.  I struggled for almost a year with both.  I got dangerously low, but in my case, I dropped very low with the start of Gleevec and had a very slow recovery.  I have been on Sprycel 100mg for 2.5 years.  My counts have somewhat stabilized.  This is my most current CBC November 5, 2012:

Component Results

WBC2.54.0-10.0THOU/CU MM
RBC3.403.90-5.25M/UL
HEMOGLOBIN11.112.0-15.0GM/DL
HCT32.936.0-45.0%
MCV96.881.0-99.0CU MICRONS
MCH32.827.0-33.0UUG
MCHC33.932.5-36.5%
RDW14.311.6-14.8%
PLATELET COUNT75150-400THOU/CU MM
LYMPH%46.512.0-40.0%
Few atypical lymphs
MONO%11.64.0-12.0%
NEUT%40.440.0-74.0%
EOSIN%1.20.0-8.0%
BASO%0.30.0-2.0%
ABSOLUTE LYMPH1.21.0-4.0THOU/CU MM
ABSOLUTE MONO0.30.1-0.7THOU/CU MM
ABSOLUTE NEUT1.01.5-8.0THOU/CU MM
ABSOLUTE EOS0.00.0-0.6THOU/CU MM
ABSOLUTE BASO0.00.0-0.2THOU/CU MM

By the way, the atypical lymphs and LYMPH% was a little high probably due to allergies or a slight infection I felt I was fighting (luckily it never turned into anything).  My ANC (absolute neutrophils) are always around 1.0.  That appears to be enough (some healthy people are in this range).  I have been extremely lucky and have not been seriously sick since dx three years ago (had an uncomfortable stomach bug in 2010, but it was not the worst I ever had).  Normally I have toxic granulation.  That is supposed to be bad, but it has had no effect on my health.  Moreover, my PLT are low at 75, but this is a new high for me.  I range from 20-70,000.  My CBCs go up and down, but they usually stay in this range.  Once I had a WBC at 4.0 (low normal for my lab).

You may never have pancytopenia or myelosuppression.  If you do, it will probably right itself or with a little help from your onc (i.e. dose reduction or shots).  The shots stink and have grave warnings that they could increase mortality and cause other cancer, so I would beg for a dose reduction, especially if your PCR remains stable on a lower dose.  According to Dr Cortz' practice, it seems fine to do this (dose reduction) without any adverse effects or the CML progressing.

The sitting and waiting to see what happens next can drive a person crazy.  I wish you peace and to be able to get on with your life until you have to worry.  And I hope and pray you never ever have to worry.  The truth is, it is very hard sometimes to predict the future with this disease.  It is what it is until it changes, if it ever does.  That is both good and bad.  Blood counts fluctuate, but it appears most people's eventually regulate as the body adjusts to a new drug and new dose.

Take care.  I wish you continued good health,

Tedsey



#18 mabdou2005

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:01 PM

Dear Tedsey

Thank's so much for  sharing your experience about low count . Now i am in peace and I can take rest from thinking about neutropenia till my next PCR to see the next step

As you say it is very hard sometimes to predict the future with this disease.which happen with me many time. But now I will ever never lose hope

To live good with CML

GOD CURE ALL OF US

M ABDOU






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