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Quick question on this Study


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#1 CMLSurvivor

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 04:00 PM

I came across an article in the Huffington Post titled "Cancer Drugs Could Cause Tumours To Spread, Rather Than Preventing Them, Warns Study"

Cancer drugs that are designed to shrink tumours by cutting off the supply to their blood may be doing the opposite and helping them spread to other parts of the body, a study has warned.

Researchers from Harvard Medical School in Boston investigated the drugs in question, Glivec and Sutent, and discovered that although it's proven that they reduce the size of the cancer tumour - it could also make them more aggressive and mobile as a result.

Experts looked at a little-studied group of cells called pericytes, which provide structural support to the blood vessels and act as a 'gatekeeper' that stops tumours growing.

However, these pericyte cells are wiped out by advanced cancer drug treatments that are designed to prevent the growth, meaning the tumour has more freedom to 'metastasise', or spread, around the body.

Glivec, the brand name of the drug imatinib, and Sutent, also known as sunitinib, have both shown to significantly increase patient survival rates. However, researchers argue that ultimately, these drugs could be making the cancers more deadly, as metastasis to vital organs, such as the liver or brain, are two chief causes of cancer deaths.

The study, published in the Cancer Cell journal, came to this conclusion after removing pericytes from breast cancer tumours in genetically engineered mice. Throughout the following 25 days, researchers saw a 30% decrease in tumour growth but a three-fold increase in the number of secondary tumours growing in the animals' lungs.

Professor Raghu Kalluri, from the study, says: "If you just looked at tumour growth, the results were good. But when you looked at the whole picture, inhibiting tumour vessels was not controlling cancer progession. The cancer was, in fact, spreading."

To add to this, the study also found a five-fold increase in cancer tumours spreading in oxygen-starved areas, which had little pericytes present.

When cancer cells are deprived of oxygen, they become more mobile, passing through leaky blood vessel walls and behave like treatment-resistant stem cells. They discovered that smaller tumours shredded more cancer cells into the blood system than larger tumours with a good supply of pericytes.

"We must go back and audit the tumour and find out which cells play a protective role versus which cells promote growth and aggression," he said. "Not everything is black and white. There are some cells inside a tumour that are actually good in certain contexts."

Dr Joanna Owens, Cancer Research UK's science information manager, told The Huffington Post: "Drugs that block blood vessel formation - so called anti-angiogenic therapies - are a relatively new type of treatment with enormous promise for treating cancer.

"This research helps us understand more about how they work in different patients, and refine clinical practice. These types of drugs are only used after extensive trials that demonstrate a clear benefit for some patients. Cancer is a complex disease and we need research like this to help us learn how to tackle it more effectively."

My question is, if it causes tumers to spread would it cause tumers in us? We take it for CML not for tumers so I am a little concerned when I read something like this. I know it is just one study that only seemed to last 25 days, but it got me wondering.



#2 CallMeLucky

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 05:34 PM

Without knowing for certain I would say this does not apply to us.  Gleevec is used to treat other cancers, most notably Gastro-Intestinal Stomach Tumors (GIST).

CML is a not a solid tumor disease and it generally is not talked about in terms of metastasis.  Since CML cells are typically circulating throughout the body already, blood cancer is a bit different then solid form cancers.

There has been specific research showing that after 10+ years of Gleevec treatment, CML patients are at no higher risk for secondary cancers then the general population.  Some have even gone so far as to say that Gleevec could potentially prevent some secondary cancers, but I don't know how accurate that is.

It is certainly not a comforting thought to think the drugs we are taking might harm us in some way later down the road.  Nonetheless, I don't think I'll be losing any sleep over this particular study.


Date  -  Lab  -  Scale  -  Drug  -  Dosage MG  - PCR
2010/Jul -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 1.2%
2010/Oct -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.25%
2010/Dec -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.367%
2011/Mar -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.0081%
2011/Jun -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2011/Sep -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.00084%
2011/Dec -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2012/Mar -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.004%
2012/Jun -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2012/Sep -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2012/Dec -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2013/Jan -  Quest  -  IS  -  Sprycel  -  50-60-70  - 0%
2013/Mar -  Quest  -  IS  -  Sprycel  -  60-70  - 0%
2013/Apr -  CUMC  -  Non-IS  -  Sprycel  - 50 - 0.036%
2013/May -  CUMC  -  Non-IS  -  Sprycel  - 50 - 0.046%
2013/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 50 - 0.0239%
2013/Jul -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0192%
2013/Jul -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0034%
2013/Oct -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0054%
2014/Jan -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0093%
2014/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.013%
2014/Apr -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.0048%
2014/Jul -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2014/Nov -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.047%
2014/Dec -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Sep -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Dec -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2016/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.0228%
2016/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2016/Sep -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2016/Dec -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Sep -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Dec - Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  -  100 - 0%
 

 


#3 Trey

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 08:52 PM

Only applies to solid tumors, if even accurate.  Poorly written bovine sharts.



#4 Happycat

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:36 PM

I wouldn't have a whole lot of faith in medical information written In HuffPo. Or any general publication. They don't explain complex topics very well.

That said, there is a lot of research trying to address the mechanisms by which solid tutors metastasize. There are  events that occur that allow cancer cells to break away and travel to remote sites. I have read about the lcancer cells sorta punching their way thru blood vessels in reputable journals.   That said,right now it is a theory, and not yet accepted. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but it also doesn't mean it's right. It might need further refinement to fully describe what happens.

This happens all the time in research studies, particularly medicalreseasrch. First coffee is bad, then it is good, etc. Sometimes the accepted theory of disease and best treatments turns out to be wrong. For instance, there is now a lot of questions about some Alzheimer's treatments making the disease worse. Five years ago, that would have been heresy, but there's enough evidence now to really cause researchers to take a hard look. 

Regarding this study and glivec, it applies to solid tumors.  The mechanisms are different for solid tumors vs. leukemias. Leukemias already have access to the body's superhighway. Thus a mechanism to punch thru blood vessels to propagate far and wide really isn't needed.

Traci



#5 CallMeLucky

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:33 AM

More on this topic since the article is spreading today and the heading is so misleading.  If you read this version of the story there is one particularly important quote made by the researcher:

http://www.gizmodo.c...e-cancer-worse/

"It's possible, Kalluri says. But it's important to note that the drugs used in the study, Gleevec and Sutent, are good at the job the FDA approved them for. It's when doctors decide to use cancer drugs "off-label" (the FDA approves drugs for specific uses, but they can't tell doctors how to use the drugs) indications that the treatment could be worse than the disease.

"If cancer drugs are used randomly against all kinds of cancer without thinking about all the biology of the tumour, it could lead to a poor prognosis," Kalluri told me."

So despite the misleading and awful heading that cancer drugs make cancer worse and most people will see this and think that Gleevec is a bad drug and family will likely call people with CML to let them know how dangerous the drug they are taking really is.  Most will miss the message that Gleevec is good at doing what it was approved to do, which is to treat CML.  Gleevec is an anti-angiogenic cancer drug and if this studfy is correct, it could reduce these pericytes and potentially allow a solid form tumor to metastasize.  Since CML patients don't have solid tumors, this should be a non-issue for us.  The real story here is doctors who look at a drug like Gleevec and think "wow that drug is great, I wonder what it would do for my patient's unrelated cancer".  Doctors prescribing cancer drugs without trials is probably not a great thing.


Date  -  Lab  -  Scale  -  Drug  -  Dosage MG  - PCR
2010/Jul -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 1.2%
2010/Oct -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.25%
2010/Dec -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.367%
2011/Mar -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.0081%
2011/Jun -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2011/Sep -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.00084%
2011/Dec -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2012/Mar -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.004%
2012/Jun -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2012/Sep -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2012/Dec -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2013/Jan -  Quest  -  IS  -  Sprycel  -  50-60-70  - 0%
2013/Mar -  Quest  -  IS  -  Sprycel  -  60-70  - 0%
2013/Apr -  CUMC  -  Non-IS  -  Sprycel  - 50 - 0.036%
2013/May -  CUMC  -  Non-IS  -  Sprycel  - 50 - 0.046%
2013/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 50 - 0.0239%
2013/Jul -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0192%
2013/Jul -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0034%
2013/Oct -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0054%
2014/Jan -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0093%
2014/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.013%
2014/Apr -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.0048%
2014/Jul -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2014/Nov -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.047%
2014/Dec -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Sep -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Dec -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2016/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.0228%
2016/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2016/Sep -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2016/Dec -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Sep -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Dec - Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  -  100 - 0%
 

 


#6 Happycat

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 06:06 PM

Well said, Gary. Your comment makes me wonder if any of my family will see that  story and call me about it!

It will be interesting to see if this theory about pericytes has validity, since anti-angiogenesis is a hot topic in cancer drug discovery.

Traci



#7 Tedsey

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:39 PM

Deja vu!  Re: "If cancer drugs are used randomly against all kinds of cancer without thinking about all the biology of the tumour, it could lead to a poor prognosis," Kalluri told me."  I think it was discussed in another post about an established cancer drug being thrown at other cancers to see if it hits its target or not...  And luckily, my family would never read such articles.  If they didn't hear it on TV, then it doesn't exist.  Don't think I will be getting any calls.  BTW, wasn't the study done on mice?  I am always weary of researchers making such bold statements when there are no human subjects.  So, what the abstract tells me is that mice taking Glivec or Sutent, who have solid breast cancer tumors and leaky blood vessels, may have their tumors spread to other parts of their bodies because of the drug.  Did I miss something?

Teds



#8 CMLSurvivor

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:46 PM

I cannot stand when they try to scare everyone! People have enough to worry about, they don't need the press to write such misleading articles. 



#9 CallMeLucky

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:54 PM

"And luckily, my family would never read such articles.  If they didn't hear it on TV, then it doesn't exist."   LMAO!


Date  -  Lab  -  Scale  -  Drug  -  Dosage MG  - PCR
2010/Jul -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 1.2%
2010/Oct -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.25%
2010/Dec -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.367%
2011/Mar -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.0081%
2011/Jun -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2011/Sep -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.00084%
2011/Dec -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2012/Mar -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0.004%
2012/Jun -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2012/Sep -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Gleevec  - 400 - 0%
2012/Dec -  MSKCC  -  Non-IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2013/Jan -  Quest  -  IS  -  Sprycel  -  50-60-70  - 0%
2013/Mar -  Quest  -  IS  -  Sprycel  -  60-70  - 0%
2013/Apr -  CUMC  -  Non-IS  -  Sprycel  - 50 - 0.036%
2013/May -  CUMC  -  Non-IS  -  Sprycel  - 50 - 0.046%
2013/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 50 - 0.0239%
2013/Jul -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0192%
2013/Jul -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0034%
2013/Oct -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0054%
2014/Jan -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 70 - 0.0093%
2014/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.013%
2014/Apr -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.0048%
2014/Jul -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2014/Nov -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.047%
2014/Dec -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Sep -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2015/Dec -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2016/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0.0228%
2016/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2016/Sep -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2016/Dec -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Mar -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Jun -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Sep -  Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  - 100 - 0%
2017/Dec - Genoptix  -  IS  -  Sprycel  -  100 - 0%
 

 


#10 Susan61

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 07:57 PM

These Articles will make you nuts, and never really apply to you or your condition.  They just make your mind wander with a bunch of What If's.  I agree with all the other responses.  Hope you got the right answers to relieve your mind.

Susan






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